New Fastpasses!!!

[CMGUY89]

YAY!!! The Disney powers that be will be instituting a brand new design for fastpasses. The date will be printed very largely in the middle of the ticket to prevent people from using previous days' fastpasses.

TAKE THAT SGS!!!

[turkeyham]

On the back of the fastpasses they should put a caution: If you are make a fake pass out of this card, you will get life. :D:

[felinefan]

String 'em up by their thumbs and give them fifty lashes!:twisted:

[mechurchlady]

Right now some evil genius SGs are planning on making the fake passes. Just take one out to the van in the parking lot and surely you could make 500 fast passes in under an hour. You would need the right inks and cardstock.

They had to do hand stamp AND ticket in DLR because some wise people would get a hand stamp then go to the parking lot and find a stamp they had that was like the one used that day. Inks were easy to copy. One admission thus could get 40 people into the park.

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

String 'em up by their thumbs and give them fifty lashes!:twisted:

How about a warning that they will be booted out and banned for, say, a year?

(and no refunds on tickets!!)

Perhaps not allowing SG's that break the rules, to attend the parks would MAYBE get their attention?

(of course, SG's will ALWAYS be SG's!!)

RUM?

[Shorty82]

They had to do hand stamp AND ticket in DLR because some wise people would get a hand stamp then go to the parking lot and find a stamp they had that was like the one used that day. Inks were easy to copy. One admission thus could get 40 people into the park.

Part of the reason we use biometrics on the turnstiles here is because of a similar problem. Back in the hand stamp days large groups would sometimes split in two and half would enter the park in the morning. Then one of the members would leave the park with the tickets and on the way out get their hand stamped. The group had a black light, copies of all the stamps, and the right kind of ink. They'd use the light to see what stamp is being used that day and stamp the second half of the group with it and give them the tickets the first half used. The groups would wind up only having to pay for tickets for half the group. I believe it was primarily local groups doing this but it was a big enough problem for Disney to purchase and install turnstiles with biometric systems.

[Figment76]

That is quite a bit of work to get people in to the park for free. They probably spent just as much money on getting the proper stamps, the black light, and the right kind of ink as they would have just buying the tickets. Although with prices these days, maybe not.

[Shorty82]

That is quite a bit of work to get people in to the park for free. They probably spent just as much money on getting the proper stamps, the black light, and the right kind of ink as they would have just buying the tickets. Although with prices these days, maybe not.

I believe it was mostly local tour groups that brought groups regularly doing this. The supplies would only be a small expense compared to the number of tickets needed to get the groups in legitimately. It was years ago that WDW put a stop to it though with the introduction of biometrics.

[mechurchlady]

That is quite a bit of work to get people in to the park for free. They probably spent just as much money on getting the proper stamps, the black light, and the right kind of ink as they would have just buying the tickets. Although with prices these days, maybe not.

Actually when you consider 40 tickets costs $1500 or more depending on the time of the incident you could do pretty well.

At pet stores for $19 you can get a black light so you can see pet urine stains.
http://www.sitstay.com/dog/supplies/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=41570

Readmission inks
$60 for 22 ounces
http://www.hittmarking.com/category.aspx?categoryID=140

Stamps not sure but one could do those pretty cheap so for about $80 and the stamps you could make a profit after only 3 or 4 admissions. Bring bus one in at $30 a person for $1200 then get their tickets and keep them on a tour while your partner #2 brings the tickets and makes stamps. Bus 2 arrives and you get $1200 from those 40 people. You have 2400 and paid 2000 for the supplies, busses and entrance fee. then bus 2 group gets stamps, special for your guests and tickets, enter, get the tickets back and get them fast passes or lie or something, I am not a crook for that reason.

Those are guestimates but you get the picture of how easy and cheap it would have been.

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

I believe it was mostly local tour groups that brought groups regularly doing this. The supplies would only be a small expense compared to the number of tickets needed to get the groups in legitimately. It was years ago that WDW put a stop to it though with the introduction of biometrics.

The bad part is, I am sure some group is already figuring out how to cheat with that system.

[felinefan]

Like when they introduced the new, supposedly counterfeit-proof twenty dollar bills a number of years ago; within two weeks there were counterfeits of them floating all over New York City.

[turkeyham]

I have not seen the new fast passes yet. I guess I will see them when I come out.

When I was in high school, one day we ditched school and went to the park. We saw a group of people rubbing the invisable ink onto each others hands. I saw security haul the group away. :eek:

That teaches them to cheat the system.

[Rob562]

Like when they introduced the new, supposedly counterfeit-proof twenty dollar bills a number of years ago; within two weeks there were counterfeits of them floating all over New York City.

There was a story on the radio here in Boston this morning. Apparently some MIT students were planning on giving a lecture at a hacker's conference in Vegas this weekend, telling how to hack into the "CharlieCard" system on the MBTA (or just "The T", the subway in Boston). The CharlieCards are stored-value smartcards that you just wave at a target to get through the turnstile, and it deducts your fare from the card.
Apparently the MBTA got a judge to issue an injunction to keep the students from giving their lecture. The students claim that they first offered to show the T what the flaws in the security were, but that the T wasn't interested. The T says that the students never returned their calls and messages from officials after the first (and only) time the students contacted the T.

-Rob

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

There was a story on the radio here in Boston this morning. Apparently some MIT students were planning on giving a lecture at a hacker's conference in Vegas this weekend, telling how to hack into the "CharlieCard" system on the MBTA (or just "The T", the subway in Boston). The CharlieCards are stored-value smartcards that you just wave at a target to get through the turnstile, and it deducts your fare from the card.
Apparently the MBTA got a judge to issue an injunction to keep the students from giving their lecture. The students claim that they first offered to show the T what the flaws in the security were, but that the T wasn't interested. The T says that the students never returned their calls and messages from officials after the first (and only) time the students contacted the T.

-Rob

Thats a FUN conference to attend, especially if you are into "applied electronics" and other things! The fun game is to spot the mole!

[TdcOgre]

There was a story on the radio here in Boston this morning. Apparently some MIT students were planning on giving a lecture at a hacker's conference in Vegas this weekend, telling how to hack into the "CharlieCard" system on the MBTA (or just "The T", the subway in Boston). The CharlieCards are stored-value smartcards that you just wave at a target to get through the turnstile, and it deducts your fare from the card.
Apparently the MBTA got a judge to issue an injunction to keep the students from giving their lecture. The students claim that they first offered to show the T what the flaws in the security were, but that the T wasn't interested. The T says that the students never returned their calls and messages from officials after the first (and only) time the students contacted the T.

-Rob

Me, I tend to believe the MIT students version of the story. The court papers filed in the case included the the students findings about the
CharlieCards. From what I read, fixing them isn't that arduous a task but it would involve spending 37¢. I would wager that the MIT students did contact the MBTA and the T ignored them, hoping they'd go away. When they didn't; the T sued trying to shut them up. Many businesses go this route these days. You should look at all the ridiculous DMCA claims there are.

[mechurchlady]

I do not like smart cards that you wave to get gasoline at Mobil stations. If someone finds your smart card then all they need is wave to get gas and with a credit card is the zip code. There was an article on how people will go to a gas station and offer to use a card to get you $25 in gas for $15 in cash because they are short on cash right now and need food for example.

[hobie16]

Boston government appears to be made up by Luddites. First they have a city-wide shut down when some small flashing signs appear all over town and then they bust a MIT student at the airport who has a circuit board attached to her sweatshirt. Those guys are wrapped a little too tight.

[hhsrat]

telling how to hack into the "CharlieCard" system on the MBTA (or just "The T", the subway in Boston). The CharlieCards are stored-value smartcards that you just wave at a target to get through the turnstile, and it deducts your fare from the card.

I don't know who's right in this argument, but I love that the MBTA named their fare cards the "Charlie Card" ... if nothing else, just for the tribute to this song (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.T.A.)

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

Boston government appears to be made up by Luddites. First they have a city-wide shut down when some small flashing signs appear all over town and then they bust a MIT student at the airport who has a circuit board attached to her sweatshirt. Those guys are wrapped a little too tight.

Was that the t-shirt with a built in Wi-FI detector?

There are a lot of other t-shirts out there that will light up with embedded L.E.D.'s and other things!!

[Fizzgig]

Hubby just got back from DefCon and he said EFF is representing the MIT kids. :D:

[hobie16]

Was that the t-shirt with a built in Wi-FI detector?

There are a lot of other t-shirts out there that will light up with embedded L.E.D.'s and other things!!
It was a circuit board with flashing lights. The other instance was a promotion fro the Cartoon Network.

[darph nader]

String 'em up by their thumbs and give them fifty lashes!:twisted:

OOOOOH, where do I get a fastpass for that ride???

[turkeyham]

The last post, I was thinking that it would be the other new track for It's a Small World made for SG. The dolls go through a different theme and show SG what happens when they do something wrong. See the dolls with the cheer leader section. They turn around and spray hair spray and yell.:cool:

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

The last post, I was thinking that it would be the other new track for It's a Small World made for SG. The dolls go through a different theme and show SG what happens when they do something wrong. See the dolls with the cheer leader section. They turn around and spray hair spray and yell.:cool:

Now THAT would be a GOOD use of IASW!!!!

[Driver_dylan]

On the back of the fastpasses they should put a caution: If you are make a fake pass out of this card, you will get life. :D:

Good, but I'd Like to make one change. "Life, serving the fast pass line."

[kurtisnelson]

Some SG saturday used a fake expired read to get into space mountain. What is really sad is that the cast member let them on even after telling them it was fake.
I did notice the larger date though. Should just start scanning the things. Slide it through a turnstyle, and have it light up either red, yellow or green. Red for expired or fake, yellow for not valid yet.

[Goofyernmost]

Some SG saturday used a fake expired read to get into space mountain. What is really sad is that the cast member let them on even after telling them it was fake.
I did notice the larger date though. Should just start scanning the things. Slide it through a turnstyle, and have it light up either red, yellow or green. Red for expired or fake, yellow for not valid yet.

Although, a good idea in itself, in my opinion it's just spending more money on a system that should be trashed. Fastpass is way more negative then positive on any level. The few that use them are happy, the majority that either don't or can't are pissed.

Now there is this whole new culture of fake FP's. This came about because Disney didn't enforce it's own rules concerning FP. They put a window on the passes for a reason. Then they decided to honor the front half (no early entry) and ignore the closing half. I cannot believe that CM's just take it upon themselves to allow people in after the close of the window. I'm sure that this is allowed from above that level. As usual, people have found a way to abuse even the friendliest of ideas.

Either enforce both the open and close of the windows or trash it. I vote for trash it.

[Elena (aka: Bubble Lady)]

[/COLOR]

Either enforce both the open and close of the windows or trash it. I vote for trash it.

at DL they've always enforced the time you can use the fp to enter the fp line, but they've always said you could go in anytime after that...it didn't matter what the window was (the end time)...the biggest problem with fp here is that a lot of them go very quickly and are gone within just a couple of hours...especially space mt.

[thomaskr]

Stamps not sure but one could do those pretty cheap so for about $80 and the stamps you could make a profit after only 3 or 4 admissions. Bring bus one in at $30 a person for $1200 then get their tickets and keep them on a tour while your partner #2 brings the tickets and makes stamps. Bus 2 arrives and you get $1200 from those 40 people. You have 2400 and paid 2000 for the supplies, busses and entrance fee. then bus 2 group gets stamps, special for your guests and tickets, enter, get the tickets back and get them fast passes or lie or something, I am not a crook for that reason.

I must be missing something (I'm thick) because I can see no way that this saves ANYBODY money??!?

Where are you getting $30 per person? Is that a discounted group bus rate? If so, if you can't afford $30 for an all-day ticket to WDW, you shouldn't be there.

If you are splitting the cost up between the two groups of 40 (I thought tickets were more than $60 each now) it STILL doesn't make any sense. To whit: nobody is SAVING any money!! Paying half price ($30) for a half day at WDW is STILL the SAME RATE, right? And which half day do you get? One might be worse (in terms of over-attendance) than the other, so it's not really fair.

Up until 10-20 years ago, all you needed to regain entry was the hand-stamp. It wasn't until that time that you needed to "hold on to your tickets".

Frankly, if I was Disney, I wouldn't care so much if people took their tickets to the parking lot, handed them to friends, relatives or strangers and said "go use the rest of the time left on the ticket". It's not like as if a terrorist wouldn't just buy a ticket the old-fashioned way.

[mousetrapclothing]

The date will be printed very largely in the middle of the ticket to prevent people from using previous days' fastpasses.

This is one of those things that we almost universally let go. Usually due to extended downtimes the previous day, the rest of the time because it's just not worth the argument. It's not necessarily our place to play gatekeeper and enforce every single rule as rigidly as possible, plus we can always accommodate a few extra riders.

Now there is this whole new culture of fake FP's. This came about because Disney didn't enforce it's own rules concerning FP.

This practice is not new, it did not evolve out of lax rule enforcement, and guaranteed: CMs can spot fake FPs, re-ads and GACs from a mile away. When you see thousands upon thousands of these every year, the few that aren't legit stick out like sore thumbs. The only reason we'd let anyone in on a fake ticket is to give security a few minutes to get to the attraction... when their ride ends, we turn the guests & the passes over to security, then the guests' day at the park ends. True story!

I cannot believe that CM's just take it upon themselves to allow people in after the close of the window.

I think the Tokyo parks are the only ones that rigidly enforce FP times... they'll give you about a five-minute leeway at the end of your window, but after that you're out of luck.

Adam

[mechurchlady]

I must be missing something (I'm thick) because I can see no way that this saves ANYBODY money??!?

Where are you getting $30 per person? Is that a discounted group bus rate? If so, if you can't afford $30 for an all-day ticket to WDW, you shouldn't be there.

If you are splitting the cost up between the two groups of 40 (I thought tickets were more than $60 each now) it STILL doesn't make any sense. To whit: nobody is SAVING any money!! Paying half price ($30) for a half day at WDW is STILL the SAME RATE, right? And which half day do you get? One might be worse (in terms of over-attendance) than the other, so it's not really fair.

Up until 10-20 years ago, all you needed to regain entry was the hand-stamp. It wasn't until that time that you needed to "hold on to your tickets".

Frankly, if I was Disney, I wouldn't care so much if people took their tickets to the parking lot, handed them to friends, relatives or strangers and said "go use the rest of the time left on the ticket". It's not like as if a terrorist wouldn't just buy a ticket the old-fashioned way.

1. I said that it was a guestimate and I do not have the mind of a crook.
2. The people who would get rich are tour operators.

Someone who was not a west coaster would better be able to explain.

Basically I am saying that for a couple hundred dollars a tour operator could have made the stamps needed for free admission.

As stated bus 1 comes in and enters then they make stamps and give the new second bus the tickets. Imagine getting 80 people a day to ride your bussess and they get a 1/3 off deal. We were talking about the old days when tickets were cheaper. You could do 10 busses a day and make a lot of money. That was when gasoline was cheaper and wages cheaper.

[joanna71985]

YAY!!! The Disney powers that be will be instituting a brand new design for fastpasses. The date will be printed very largely in the middle of the ticket to prevent people from using previous days' fastpasses.

TAKE THAT SGS!!!

Huzzah! It's about time.