Cascades, Downtimes, and SGs

[steverails]

Efficiency is perhaps the most essential factor in providing guests with the most seamless experience on any attraction; not only does the queue move faster, the individual ride vehicle moves as it should as opposed to stopping in every break zone. In most instances-from what I have observed both as a CM and as a guest on my off days-the vast majority of CMs tend to move with a sense of urgency when loading a ride thereby working to optimize the OHRC and keep the wait at a minimum. It is ultimately guests who slow rides down, or rather, lead to them cascading and, in some instances, going 101. It starts at any grouper position where the size of a party will start at two and grow to eight since the other part of their group is farther back in line. When they are finally assigned to their rows, they switch seats or seats are left vacant. As guests board a vehcle, they take their time putting their bags away or-my favorite-attempt to cram their giant rolling cooler into an elastic-lined cargo bag while not pulling down their lap bar. Unloading is next where the guests linger on the platform-on the wrong side of the control line-thus preventing the vehicle from being advanced. By the way, one cannot rule out the SG during the ride who finds it funny to stand up or attempt to exit the vehicle thus causing the ride to go down.

Every day, guests complain about long wait times and down times, yet, ironically, they are, in some ways or another, if not fully, to blame! That is why I am starting this post. I want to hear about your experiences with SGs who cause your ride to cascade and go down because of their antics. And specifically for any CMs who work Space Mountain at WDW: Is it true that when your attraction cascades to the point of causing an auto e-stop that there are certain CMs, I believe unload or tower, who get reprimanded? If so, why is this?

[CMGUY89]

I don't know about SM but at Soarin' we are constantly being B****ed at for our dispatch times. The ride itself is 4:50, we then are supposed to take 2:40 to unload and load the attraction. All of this while moving ECVs, checking seatbelts/center straps, moving bags, and making guests take off flip flops. What always pisses me off is when all the dodo parents put their center straps on while they let their children fasten their belts without the strap. And people always seem to jump to different row or carriages during the loading process further increasing our dispatch time. 7:30 is the target, 9:00 is considered at downtime and an explanation must be logged. One day my gate team and I were firing on all cylinders and we were blessed with intelligent guests and were able to get a 7:03 dispatch. It was awesome! Whenever we call in a film cleaning we slow load the theater while they are switching out the film and the dispatch is usually around 11:00. We have different 101 codes for different reasons. 101O-101 due to operations 101G- 101 due to guests 101M- 101 due to maint.
Lines would move a lot faster if guests would pay attention to safety instructions allowing us to do our job faster.

[Euterpe]

There are certain coordinators at Soarin' that are a little too obsessed with efficiency. A flight time under 9 minutes is easy, 7:30 can be tricky. There's always something (i.e. a guest) who's going to hold up a dispatch. The most important thing I think is to hurry them along without showing the urgency. The guests are like little kids. If you show the urgency and stress in your voice or your face or your body language, either they know they're pushing your buttons, and they'll keep pushing them, or they'll get stressed out too, and get confused and sit in the wrong seat, or put their seat belt in wrong, etc.

Like I said in your other Soarin' post, it's more important in my mind to answer guests' questions and make sure everyone's seated safely and that they're all ready to take off than to shave 10 seconds off a flight time. And I'll stand by that no matter what. I'm not going to ignore a guest who's calling for a Flight Attendant just because I'm in a hurry to get the ride of the ground. I feel very strongly about that.

[TalkingHands]

Lines would move a lot faster if guests would pay attention to safety instructions allowing us to do our job faster.
It would help if CM would be more aware of guests with hearing losses. We often don't hear the full spiel. It becomes garbled in the background noise of other guest talking and ignoring you. And if it is over an intercom forget it. I don't understand those at all. I want to follow your instructions but it's not happening if I can't hear you.

[albino_pygmy]

Never been on Soarin so I'm not exactly sure how it's set up as far as loading/unloading goes, I assume it's you're already assigned a row, you stay in that row and move all the way down filling every available seat, like a normal theatre, if it rose 45 feet in the air. I still have no idea how hard it is for people to sit down and shut up. When I was at Jungle, we usually aim for 45 second loads, 30 seconds if we're really busy and have 10 boats on the river. On average, it's a little over a minute because people don't listen to the loaders or the skipper telling them not to cross the crates, or to slide all the way down. "But no, I want to sit here" Well, if you want to sit here, you've just blocked access for other guests to enter the boat and it'll lean to one side and has a chance of popping out of the track, bad idea. What really bugs me the most is when large groups try to make it easier for us to load the boat by saying they're parties of 2, 3, or 4, when in fact it's a large party of 17 that wants to ride all together. You've told me you were party of 2, 3, 2, 4, and so on and this was after I've loaded a group of 10 already, and now the next group of this party of 17 I have to hold back because they can't fit, and they all get upset that we have to split them up, so we have to unload those on the boat because they refused to be seperated, put them on the next boat, and just caused a lovely unecessary backup in the river. "And if everyone can look towards the back of the boat, this is the world's strongest family, look at them hold up an entire Disney attraction all by themselves!"

[CMGUY89]

It would help if CM would be more aware of guests with hearing losses. We often don't hear the full spiel. It becomes garbled in the background noise of other guest talking and ignoring you. And if it is over an intercom forget it. I don't understand those at all. I want to follow your instructions but it's not happening if I can't hear you.
I am very understanding of guests with hearing loss, but I do need to know how I can be of more assistance. I can turn on closed captioning for the pre-show or personally explain the procedures as long as you communicate with me. I can't help if I don't know there is an issue. ;)
There are certain coordinators at Soarin' that are a little too obsessed with efficiency. A flight time under 9 minutes is easy, 7:30 can be tricky. There's always something (i.e. a guest) who's going to hold up a dispatch. The most important thing I think is to hurry them along without showing the urgency.
I think I know who you are talking about. ;)
Yes, sometimes I would like to remind them about the four elements of Disney show.
1. Safety
2. COURTESY
3. Show
*4.* Efficiency

[Euterpe]

Yes, sometimes I would like to remind them about the four elements of Disney show.
1. Safety
2. COURTESY
3. Show
*4.* Efficiency

Thank you, I'm a big fan of those elements and what order they're in. I think you should feel free to tell then when they're messing with that order.

I think sometimes managers and coordinators get so removed from what we're doing, they only see the numbers on the page telling us that our flight times are slow or that the FastPass line is too long. They forget the human element, that the reason flights might go out late are because there are guest issues, and we're doing our best to make the guests happy.

We're not just sitting around, slacking off. I'm always doing something before a flight. Helping with seat belts, lost and found, a scared child, moving bags, ECV's, getting someone to take off their camera... There is always something that needs to be done, and I think when you become so obsessed with the numbers, you aren't giving the guests the best experience possible.

[TalkingHands]

I am very understanding of guests with hearing loss, but I do need to know how I can be of more assistance. I can turn on closed captioning for the pre-show or personally explain the procedures as long as you communicate with me. I can't help if I don't know there is an issue. ;)
I do let CM know I am have a hearing loss. Problem seems to be that they see the PWC and assume there are no other issues so quickly turn and are off before I can tell them I can't understand them. An example is Indy. The CM will point to a place for me to park my PWC and quickly dart away before I can tell them I need to go downstairs for the interpreting. Then when I don't go where they pointed they become irritated and get upset with me. BTW I have a fairly soft voice except when I am upset or frustrated and then it screeches

[steverails]

Indeed efficiency is the last of the four quality standards. Balance amongst the four is the key to success. I had one trainer in monorails explain that as CMs, we should strive to "maintain safety above all else while being courteously efficient," which hits the nail on the head. I could not agree more that numbers cause all CMs to lose sight of what is imporant. I have noticed this at Soarin'. There is a lot going on before the flight takes and I give the Cast props for doing what they do on a daily basis.

At Everest, guest cooperation is key. Guests constantly tend to employ "selective listening," especially when they are grouped. They have no problems switching rows behind the back of the CM and then proceeding to argue with the CM all the while the train is leaving with an entire car empty. How is this not bad show to the guests who've been waiting in line for an hour when they see empty seats? This is where being "courteously efficient" is key. There is no time to debate when trains need to be advanced every 54 seconds (with 5 trains on). Additionally, SGs who have their entire luggage set with them tend to slow things down while the worst are those who don't fully pull down their lap bar, if they do so at all. These are the actions that cause Everest to cascade, which, again, causes bad show. Cars will stop in eac brake zone until the tower CM clears each zone. Catch my drift?

[purvislets]

I've been a witness numerous times to the seat switching at Space Mountain at WDW and it irks me to no end. It never fails... I always get stuck behind the idiot who thinks that since his wife, son and daughter are in 1, 2, and 3 and he's in 4 that they aren't going to ride together. So he tries to get in 3 ride behind his kid. The CM tries to explain to him that he needs to get back into 4 in order to ride with his family. SG then proceeds to be rude to the CM who is calmly trying to explain that they will all get to ride together.

I had a family in front of me once actually hold up the line for almost 3minutes before finally moving to the side to continue arguing with the CM about their seating. I never saw how it was resolved because we got in line like we were told and were off within seconds. :rolleyes:

[Big Wallaby]

Okay, maybe you can answer this for me. On coasters and other ride vehicles that run two by two and so on, I understand about selective listening. However, how often do they regroup themselves into the wrong rows just purely out of not understanding you and just plain SGness? Working at Safari, I have always thought that the two by two grouping would be easier than something where you have a row that can either be four or five wide, depending on the people. There's also the issue that in the double-loading area, you don't have bars separating the rows so that you can point and they are forced to take the right rows. So on coasters like Everest and RnRC, how does that work out with guests? I mean, how often do you have the guests that re-row themselves?

[CMGUY89]

The most challenging part about Soarin' is that there are three different groupings of rows. 4 have ten seats, 3 have eleven seats, 2 have seven seats. It gets confusing when rotation comes through and you have to adjust to a new grouping.

[Javamom]

What annoys me are the guests that file into Soarin' and walk to the wrong row. We saw this one time and it was clear that the people that did it, knew that they were not supposed to. The CM didn't have time to deal with moving everyone back where they belonged, so these poor people got bumped into the next row.
:eek:
I have personal pet peeves about guests that think that they are special and that the rules do not apply to them. I particularly dislike the ones that do not move all the way down the row in the theatre shows. Seriously, just nicely let guests MOVE IN FRONT of you with a smile, and you can end up in the middle without being a jerk!
:D:

[CMGUY89]

What annoys me are the guests that file into Soarin' and walk to the wrong row. We saw this one time and it was clear that the people that did it, knew that they were not supposed to. The CM didn't have time to deal with moving everyone back where they belonged, so these poor people got bumped into the next row.
:eek:
I have personal pet peeves about guests that think that they are special and that the rules do not apply to them. I particularly dislike the ones that do not move all the way down the row in the theatre shows. Seriously, just nicely let guests MOVE IN FRONT of you with a smile, and you can end up in the middle without being a jerk!
:D:
That happens A LOT! What's worse is they switch rows and we are keeping count in our heads and we get in the theater and don't have enough seats for other people and have to put them on the next flight. We call it overbooking, and it really ticks us off. We put the people in row one to try to keep them happy and they are generally pretty understanding..

[acourtwdw]

I am one of the SG's who tends to slow things down. I don't do it on purpose. I am a large (think Pooh sized) person who has trouble getting out of the ride cars. Space Mountain is the worst. But I do follow what CM's are telling me to do. Sorry to inconvenince anyone. ;)

[steverails]

To answer your question, BigWallaby, SGs change rows constantly. Indeed, there are times when SGs, due to selective listening, meander, however the vast majority of guests I deal with at EE change rows on purpose. The two biggest reasons are wanting the front row or arranging themselves in the same car so they can be in the same picture. The front row problem, at least most of the time, is an easy fix. The front row has to be requested at EE. Due to its popularity, we have a small queue to the side for this. Most guests tend to ask the grouper outright, but there are also entire groups who will take it upon themselves to move to the front. Usually, we direct these guests to the waiting area, yet many of them get short with the CM and want to debate the fact that they will hve to wait a few additional minutes. This is what hurts us. As far as guests repositioning themselves to be in the same picture, there is a great deal of grey area. If the platform is doubloe loaded, or nearly double loaded, with more guests coming down the walkway and a train loading, frankly, we have no time to accomodate this request, especially with five trains. What ends up happening in this situation is the train leaving with an entire car empty while the guest complains. We don't arrange how guests are positioned in the queue.

While grouping at a coaster where the seats are two by two is more set in stone, it is very challening. It is, in a sense, a warped version of Tetris. First, you are in a race against the clock to ensure that each train, all 17 rows, are full. With five trains at EE, the interval is 54 seconds. Second, we have guests like the ones above to deal with. Grouping at EE is actually a two person effort divided between the grouper, the CM at the end of the line, and the load CM, who places the guests in the rows. The grouper's main objective is to keep the line moving by sending the parties to load, who will assign them into rows 1 through 12. The grouper will then back load rows 13-17. If there is an odd group, the grouper will send a single rider to fill the empty seat. If the next party is odd, some CMs will even send them down to make the group even. The object is to stay double loaded or close to it. Once a grouper loses his edge, it is difficult to recover. The load CM is the one who has to deal with the previously mentioned row changers. The problem arises when the grouper doesn't notice this and sends down a mass of people instead of back loading. This is an honest mistake. The load CM will typically be dealing with the row switching guests while the mass of guests is getting confused and randomly picking rows. This is where things start to go to hell in a hand basket. Finally, we cannot rule out the SGs who come into the single rider line, knowing full well that they will be split up, but still put up a fuss about it. I had one man the other day say that he knew he was in the singles line, but he refused to wait in the longer standby line. Hope this helps.

[Syndrome]

I had an interesting experience on EE once. I had been in the single riders line and was directed to ride next to Mr. SG, whose two other family members were in the row in front of us. He parks it in the first seat, and I literally have to tell him three times to move over because I am riding on that train. You would have think I told him his mother should have died of cancer the day after she conceived him. He never said a word, just glared at me as he moved and continued to glare for the whole ride. Weird.....

[accioetoile]

At Mission: Space, grouping could be a pain. If there's a group of 5, they didn't seem to understand that they couldn't all ride together, because there were only 4 seats in each shuttle. We'd split them up into 3 and 2. But if you're not paying attention, sometimes they wouldn't understand/listen, and would all go on the same team. And you'd look in the room, and instead of seeing 2 spots open on team 1, and 1 spot on team 2, you'd see an entire team and so you would fill the team up with another group. And then they'd get to the pre-flight, and whoever was in there would be going around, making sure everyone was ready, and they'd find a group with one too many people. That's when we'd have to hope that there would be another spot open on another team, but sometimes we'd fill every single spot. And because of that, the group of 5 now has to wait though 2 more rides, because the ready room would already be filled by another group of people watching the video, and we'd have to call dispatch and let them know to save 2 groups. All because the group didn't listen to whoever was telling them where to stand.

I hope that made some kind of sense. lol.

[mechurchlady]

Bobsleds are at times hard to seat.

OMG you want us to sit together. Some were very large and wanted their own seat. No problem if you tell the loader ahead of time. I have a stiff leg may I ride in my own seat. There were men who did not want to sit in the lap of another man and some women not in the lap of anyone. I can understand religious and medical reasons but really most of the excuses was manure.

and if a group decided they wanted an extra seat then that royally mesed up things. The next cycle had now half of a group going and half waiting, Repeat until balanced with singles. I have had to give up my seat so groups could ride.


Alice in Wonderland has a specific loading pattern. The ride vehicle has 3 wheels like an ECV. CMs could not put to large adults in the front as that would cause the vehicle to be off balance. OOH now we want the whole ride vehicle with us. ok we share but they go in the back.

A CM acquaintance got berated by parents whose kids were to big for play areas. On the steam train there are seats that face the station and those that face the train. I once got fed up and climbed the seats to get a seat and make room for others. The bench holds 3 to 6 people depending on size. So why is there room for at least 2 people next to you? the conductors would beg people to move down. They had to send out trains on schedule but people would be running to get on, begging to ride, and conductors were looking for cattle prods to get people to move down. Not fun to be a conductor.

[Euterpe]

The weight distribution was always a problem at Blizzard Beach. At the Family right (Teamboat Springs), you need to evenly distribute the weight or else the raft might flip over. The hassles I've had over too-in love couples who wanted to make out for a minute and a half, and little kids who wanted to sit in parents laps... not to mention the old enough to know better kids who stand up on the ride... We evacuate them from the park. It's a pretty dangerous ride. An empty raft weighs something like 500lbs, so if you fall out, and the family behind you hits you, it's something like 1000+lbs hitting your at a pretty swift speed, and you have no one to blame but yourself.

[Theme Park Where]

RnRC used to use a double grouper like EE but has since switched to a single. The double caused problems with large parties who would sometimes have to be distributed across the whole coaster because they wouldn't fit in just the front or back half. Convincing people that they will ride together even though they're in different lines was a challenge. It's also extremely loud in the RnR queue, so I think some of the load problems were with guests not hearing us at all. Another problem was with language. Groups of three were the biggest problem. Mom, Dad, and a kid who didn't speak much English wanted to ride together so they thought they had to be in the same gate together. The other big problem was with groups who were "together" but only told us they were 2 and 2 and 2, etc. We also had the back row as a frequent request, which made grouping fours difficult since you group from front to back and you usually weren't even across the coaster if someone specifically requested the last car. We did try to keep 3s and 4s together in the same car for photo purposes too, which adds another element to the mix. The single grouper seems to go more smoothly. We were frequently pulling 1s or 2s out of the queue from further back to make the lanes even for larger parties, and now the single rider line gives the grouper a quick fix to those types of problems.

[kurtisnelson]

I think they are back to double groupers again. They have someone up front that puts people in the right row there, so I think that counts.
I think the singles line solved some of those problems? It is still a really slow moving singles line.

[Yeti Chaser]

There are certain coordinators at Soarin' that are a little too obsessed with efficiency. A flight time under 9 minutes is easy, 7:30 can be tricky. There's always something (i.e. a guest) who's going to hold up a dispatch. The most important thing I think is to hurry them along without showing the urgency.



Okay, I just had to butt in in this one. When we opened the attraction in 2005, we had dispatch times of 7:30 or less. I was on that team. Had no issues with getting guests loaded and were able to answer questions. The 7:03 you had is attainable. Oh, I know I'm going to catch it for these comments, but it is Monday and anything goes.

BTW: We did all of this while maintaning the 4 Service Guidelines :D:

[CMGUY89]

Okay, I just had to butt in in this one. When we opened the attraction in 2005, we had dispatch times of 7:30 or less. I was on that team. Had no issues with getting guests loaded and were able to answer questions. The 7:03 you had is attainable. Oh, I know I'm going to catch it for these comments, but it is Monday and anything goes.

BTW: We did all of this while maintaning the 4 Service Guidelines :D:
Yes, yes we hear about how amazing the opening team was all the time. But also they recently implemented a new procedure which adds another 30-60 seconds onto dispatches after someone got locked in the theater. We have to do a "hold" walk after our "s" walk going up the side of the carriage ensuring the theater is clear. That is the majority of the reason that times have gotten worse since opening team.

[Euterpe]

I know nothing's ever as good as when you were there (I still like to think that the best CP's at Port Orleans' Food Court was Fall 2004:o:), but between adding an extra walk, and with the ride becoming more popular, and therefore more busy, it's only logical that there will be more guest issues. Because no matter how much you hurry, how fast you run, there's always that one guest that forgets to put his kid's seat belt through the safety loop, and when you fix it, there are the 6 other people in that row that think that now they need the loop. There are still going to be the people who simply will not put their cameras away, or who ask you to take pictures of their family. There's the completely flawed Lost and Found system where people come in the exit and shuffle around trying to figure out where they sat. There's the group of 11 ECV's that come in, and we have to find places to put them all. It is possible to get a 7:30 flight, I'm just saying you need 87 competent guests, and little to no guest interaction.

I'm not the most positive person to talk to about the gates. I get panic attacks when I had to work the gates. I would much prefer to be Stand By, Fast Pass Distribution/Return, or Merge. I really like guest interaction.

[Syndrome]

Because no matter how much you hurry, how fast you run, there's always that one guest that forgets to put his kid's seat belt through the safety loop, and when you fix it, there are the 6 other people in that row that think that now they need the loop.
I remember riding once and being next to a mom and mini-aviator. Mom put the loop through the belt for herself and didn't even bother for the poor little kid!!

[EeyoresButterfly]

Dumbo was quite prone to SG issues. We group people two to an elephant except under certain circumstances (larger guests might get one, families with small children typically request to put three people in a Dumbo). We give each party a ticket, there is one ticket per Dumbo. We then explain the boarding pass procedure: place the ticket on the ear, no ticket, no Dumbo.

This is where things get interesting. Whenever I have a couple with a child that requests one Dumbo for three, I always remind them that Dumbo is a baby and therefore not that big. If they insist, I let them, most of the time they fit no problem. The issue comes when they decide it's really not big enough and try to split up. The other problem is teenagers and other groups wanting a Dumbo per person, but not telling us that. Whenever we have somebody with a boarding pass standing around, we have to find the Dumbo without it, and make a switch- this kills our OHRC.

The worst I had was a lady who came up the exit (verified by witnesses) who then parked herself and child in a Dumbo and tried to claim that I had failed to give her a boarding pass. There were a couple of issues with this:
1.) We had witnesses saying that she came up the exit
2.) I would have remembered seeing her in the line
3.) No guest spoke up and said she was in the line with them, and believe me, they will tell us when we are wrong.

She refused to get out (this was her last ride and then she was going home) so we had to call security. We were on hold for at least five minutes. Thankfully the coordinator and manager backed us up, especially since I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and offered to get her on in two rides. They called down to guest relations and made sure that they did not listen to this lady's story. It's always nice when GR backs us up. :twisted:

Philharmagic is also prone to SG issues- specifically if people do not walk all the way to the end of the row. I do not let guests climb over other guests (safety issue) and many times the guests will not do it anyway. I've had to hold the show numerous times because people could not get seated before the lights go out.

Snow White has some cascade issues, typically related to people being too slow. It's pretty bad now that there is no grouper, we have to try to group from the panel (which seems dangerous since it diverts our attention) and the guests don't pay attention. We also have lots of problems with little kids trying to run into the tracks which causes us to have to station stop the ride.

The other ride with cascade issues is Pooh. I feel very bad for guests with wheelchairs, it's darn near impossible to load the wheelchair honeypot without causing a cascade leading to an e-stop. It takes quite a bit of experience before you can do it. What really gets my goat is when CMs ignore the safety aspect of it to keep the ride from E-stopping. This typically means not strapping down the chair or not having the able bodied person sitting with them fasten their seatbelt. I know it is hard to get that seatbelt fastened, but if the ride stops and it is discovered that person went unbelted, you can be in some serious trouble. I would much rather have an auto e-stop than a safety violation.

There was one point when they considered taking out that honeypot due to OHRC issues (it takes awhile to load and is a frequent cause of downtimes due to problems with a switch.) I always hate it when they do that because people who cannot transfer have very few rides they can ride. There is also a problem with CMs hurrying the people and making them feel like and inconvenience. I know they don't do it on purpose, but we should never make a guest feel this way just because they need the wheelchair honeypot.

[hhsrat]

Snow White has some cascade issues, typically related to people being too slow. It's pretty bad now that there is no grouper, we have to try to group from the panel (which seems dangerous since it diverts our attention) and the guests don't pay attention. We also have lots of problems with little kids trying to run into the tracks which causes us to have to station stop the ride.


I believe they may be looking into removing a vehicle from the ride, so as to help minimize the cascades. (Still doesn't solve the problem of having no grouper, but that's a whole 'nother story ... and now they're trying to group at the Tea Cups ...)

[Big Wallaby]

The only time I've been on Snow White, the timings were messed up because the cars were so backed up. The audio didn't sync up at all and audio loops would often start as I was leaving the scene. I was rather unimpressed at that moment.

[Elena (aka: Bubble Lady)]

aaarrrgggghhhh...while in a leg cast i caused peter pan to go down cuz it took me so long to get in the ship...i was so embarrassed...but then we did get to ride it with the lights on :)

[Mayonnaise]

I always get antsy near the front of queues on continuous load rides for just this sort of reason. I've always been terrified of causing a jam up. I remember when I was a kid being afraid I wouldn't get into the buggy on time at Mansion and mess up everything...

But then, I have this issue with stepping off escalators and into revolving doors too.

8^P

[steverails]

Single riders, while they an asset for the most part, can be another hindrance at EE. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the single rider greeter's job is to ask all guests if they are "single riders," or explain that "all groups will be split up." Most EE CMs are very good about this, but there are still SGs who will cause commotion when they get to the grouper. When the grouper calls for a single rider, the most common tactic SGs in groups employ is heading down in a pair-like we don't notice! Either the grouper or station assist will stop them, yet they will argue that no one informed them it was a single rider line. Even better is when groups demand to be in the same car, or, this is the best, when they fully realize they are in the singles line but refuse to wait in the standby queue because it is too long. Some other problems that arise are SGs ducking into from the singles line into the front row line or odd groups of people wanting their own car. There is the occasional group that wants that one seat empty.

[Sioban]

aaarrrgggghhhh...while in a leg cast i caused peter pan to go down cuz it took me so long to get in the ship...i was so embarrassed...but then we did get to ride it with the lights on :)

Did you attempt to get on through the exit or through the regular line? Either way, the CM should have E-stopped and then just started it back up. I've had to to that before, quiet a few times. It's not fun but you do what you've gotta do.

[NessaMcTastic]

I always get antsy near the front of queues on continuous load rides for just this sort of reason. I've always been terrified of causing a jam up. I remember when I was a kid being afraid I wouldn't get into the buggy on time at Mansion and mess up everything...

But then, I have this issue with stepping off escalators and into revolving doors too.

8^P

Mayo, I have the same hesitation. Peter Pan's my favorite ride but it takes me a few seconds to feel like I'll make it on.

I try to avoid revolving doors as often as possible. I've been almost stuck in them one too many times.

[Euterpe]

Single riders, while they an asset for the most part, can be another hindrance at EE. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the single rider greeter's job is to ask all guests if they are "single riders," or explain that "all groups will be split up." Most EE CMs are very good about this, but there are still SGs who will cause commotion when they get to the grouper. When the grouper calls for a single rider, the most common tactic SGs in groups employ is heading down in a pair-like we don't notice! Either the grouper or station assist will stop them, yet they will argue that no one informed them it was a single rider line. Even better is when groups demand to be in the same car, or, this is the best, when they fully realize they are in the singles line but refuse to wait in the standby queue because it is too long. Some other problems that arise are SGs ducking into from the singles line into the front row line or odd groups of people wanting their own car. There is the occasional group that wants that one seat empty.

Ugh, this happens at the chairlift at Blizzard Beach all the time. The get to the grouper and they try to get on together, and I have to tell them, "sorry, you're in the single rider line. You can go one at a time, or you can go get in the group line." They try to argue that they stood in line for 10 minutes in single rider and I'm just like, "Well, the people in the group line just waited 45, and they aren't going to like you cutting in front of them." Everything about that damned chair lift is frustrating. You get lots of giant bruises on your legs from being hit with a moving chair, when a guest does something and you end up in the way.

I know the chair lift probably seemed like a brilliant idea on paper... It's not in practice. What a mess.

[spacecadet101]

So I realize this post is a few months old, but I am new to these boards and I just noticed that no one answered this part of the question. (unless I missed it, in which case i'm sorry!)


Every day, guests complain about long wait times and down times, yet, ironically, they are, in some ways or another, if not fully, to blame! That is why I am starting this post. I want to hear about your experiences with SGs who cause your ride to cascade and go down because of their antics. And specifically for any CMs who work Space Mountain at WDW: Is it true that when your attraction cascades to the point of causing an auto e-stop that there are certain CMs, I believe unload or tower, who get reprimanded? If so, why is this?

I work at Space and I think we have sort of a bad reputation of getting reprimands easily. There are A LOT of things you can do to get a reprimand, but if you aren't a moron, it shouldn't be too hard to avoid them.

If we have a cascade, 9.9 times out of ten its because of a slow guest. There is nothing as cast members that we can do physically to get a guest past the yellow line or out of the rocket, so if we can't send it and get backed up, and eventually go 101, its not our fault and we usually won't get a reprimand. For example, I had one lady come down and was laughing so hysterically that she literally couldn't get herself out. I tried to convince her to get up, and she saw the rockets coming in behind her, but she just didn't care. She sat there until after we had already gone 101, eventually just getting out and going on her merry way! I can't push her out, there's nothing I can really do other than politely instruct her to get out (and we all know how well guests listen to CMs!).

The ride can't really cascade to the point of getting an auto-estop because of a guest. Either we have a cascade, or we have an e-stop. they are caused by different events. Now, when we reset a cascade, there are things that can happen that cause an e-stop, but most of the time those are unfortunately cm's mistakes, so they do get reprimands.

Not really sure if I completely made sense, sorry!

My favorite part of 101s is when the guests that are waiting get mad at ME and then I get to tell them, actually it was someone getting out too slow that caused the ride to stop and have you all wait longer. If you want me to go find them I'd be happy to do so. They usually stop yelling then.


p.s. how do the other rides work? how long are you 101 for a cascade or estop?

[felinefan]

Wonder what was so darn funny that that lady was laughing so hard she couldn't/wouldn't get out of her rocket?

[turkeyham]

When I went to Knott's last, they have a attraction seat. If you can not fit into the seat, you can not ride the attraction. Too bad Disneyland does not have anything like this?

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

Wonder what was so darn funny that that lady was laughing so hard she couldn't/wouldn't get out of her rocket?

The thrill?

Last week when I went to DLR by myself, (DW was stun at a confrence, hehehehe) I decided to ride SM. I was standing in the (3 minute?) wait, and was talking with another guest, he told me that it was the first time riding SM since he had been to the park about 25 years ago. He said he was trying to see if it was how he rememberd it.

He was in the seat in front of me and began laughing when we took off, and continued to do so for the entire ride!

when we got off, he was telling everyone that it was better that he ever remembered.

Ya gotta get a kick of a guy in his mid-30's or so being reverted to a ten year old with just one ride on SM!

[hhsrat]

p.s. how do the other rides work? how long are you 101 for a cascade or estop?

For a cascade stop/shutdown at Pooh or Snow White, all you need to do is power down and power back up at the panel. Usually a very quick reset ... Pooh will occasionally have problems resetting because of the ADA vehicle, and sometimes maintenance has to be called for that, but usually it works fine.

[Ms. Matterhorn]

When I went to Knott's last, they have a attraction seat. If you can not fit into the seat, you can not ride the attraction. Too bad Disneyland does not have anything like this?
That sounds like a great idea! What ride is that? And so embarrassing that the lard-butts might not even want to try...

If your but does not fit in this seat you cannot ride...

One of these days Ms. Matterhorn will tell you all about the "Jerseymaid Alert"...

[turkeyham]

When I went to Knott's it was outside of the Extreme Plunge water ride? I did see one also outside of Excellerator. I can't spell that one either. It has been 2 yearssince I went to Knott's with my friend. I am due for a visit soon.:)

[Cranbiz]

Exposition Everest has a ride vehicle near the single rider line to test your fit. It's more for the lap bar as those seats are roomier than others on property.

[Rob562]

There's also a test seat on Test Track. It's in a rather out-of-the-way location beyond the pre-show rooms, near where the cars re-enter the building from outside. (You can kinda see it when you're in the queue at the load platform)

Both the Test Track and the Everest seats were mostly designed with handicapped riders in mind so that they can try out the load/unload procedure before they actually have to do it. (The Everest seat includes the swing-open door that is part of the handicap-accessible seat on each train)

-Rob

[turkeyham]

Most of the days I am at the park with my sister, we have noticed that Big Thunder goes down frequently. We hear the following: "Please remain seated at all times", "Please face forward", "No lap seating," "Please remain from climbing onto the rocks, poles, trees add fences."

Lets see.. I want to climb out of the train while in motion. SG do that at the MK at WDW. I would like to see someone get eaten by a gator in FL.
SG, you will not get compt for the day for doing such event.

If I ride the ride I want to, I will have injuries and Disney will have to pay me.

This attraction is not the climbing wall. Please stay behind the fences. They are there for a reason. If you disobey the cast members and they have to call security. You know it is your fault and now the attraction breaks down and everyone has to turn around and walk off the ride. :twisted:

[felinefan]

When I went to Knott's it was outside of the Extreme Plunge water ride? I did see one also outside of Excellerator. I can't spell that one either. It has been 2 yearssince I went to Knott's with my friend. I am due for a visit soon.:)

You mean Perilous Plunge and Xcelerator. Why you want to go to that falling apart crappy park is beyond me. You'll be lucky if you don't get killed on a poorly maintained ride.

[turkeyham]

When I go to Knott's, I go and walk around the park. I also have friends who work in foods and merchandise training. My ROP trainer is still there too. My friend David is a supervisor with Security and his wife plays snoopy.:eek:

I like Mystery Lodge, hate Hammerhead, the rollercoasters that shake too much scare me. I stay off of those. I like to go shopping and buy jellies and jams. They have flavors that the stores don't have at my home.

[Ms. Matterhorn]

Knott's is nice to walk around and shop when you can get discount tix. The only rides my hubby and I will go on are the train and... umm... that's it, the train. He actually misses the Haunted Shack! LOL!

[Teddykeiko86]

I know what an auto E-stop is, but what is a cascade?
Do you have to mannually e-stop after a cascade?
Are there other times you have to manualy e-stop.
What do CMs do that they get reprimanded for?

[BRWombat]

Exposition Everest has a ride vehicle near the single rider line to test your fit. It's more for the lap bar as those seats are roomier than others on property.Really? I can fit in an EE seat -- and if I can (6'5", 350+) anyone can!

[drcorey]

Most of the days I am at the park with my sister, we have noticed that Big Thunder goes down frequently. We hear the following: "Please remain seated at all times", "Please face forward", "No lap seating," "Please remain from climbing onto the rocks, poles, trees add fences."

Lets see.. I want to climb out of the train while in motion. SG do that at the MK at WDW. I would like to see someone get eaten by a gator in FL.
SG, you will not get compt for the day for doing such event.

If I ride the ride I want to, I will have injuries and Disney will have to pay me.

This attraction is not the climbing wall. Please stay behind the fences. They are there for a reason. If you disobey the cast members and they have to call security. You know it is your fault and now the attraction breaks down and everyone has to turn around and walk off the ride. :twisted:

but BTMR has a lot of other things that could shut it down too.
the tracks have tons of motion sensors that will signal the computer to shutdown the ride. anything blocking or moving accross one at the wrong time will make the computer call a system shutdown. a bird doing a fly by, a rodent running by, even trash blowing by one. everything must be in sync.

[Shorty82]

but BTMR has a lot of other things that could shut it down too.
the tracks have tons of motion sensors that will signal the computer to shutdown the ride. anything blocking or moving accross one at the wrong time will make the computer call a system shutdown. a bird doing a fly by, a rodent running by, even trash blowing by one. everything must be in sync.

Reminds me of a story I read one time where due to the actions of one SG three or four attractions went down at one time. At the MK back when they had the canoes an SG ran aground at BTMRR causing it to shut down. To rescue the SG a raft from Tom Sawyer's Island was used, shutting that down. Due to how the canoe and raft were sticking out during the rescue the path of the steam boat was blocked, shutting it down.

[turkeyham]

I remember one summer, the walk way behind BTRR was shut off. A family of skunks decided to take a slow leasurely stroll. :eek:

About Knott's, if any ride shakes while you are out in the park. There is no way I would go on that ride.

Tell me about the Jerseymaid story. It would make my day. :)

[drcorey]

I remember one summer, the walk way behind BTRR was shut off. A family of skunks decided to take a slow leasurely stroll. :eek:

About Knott's, if any ride shakes while you are out in the park. There is no way I would go on that ride.

Tell me about the Jerseymaid story. It would make my day. :)

skunks? wow, lots of disney wildlife around.
I once saw a family of squirrels stampeed near the river.

[felinefan]

Knott's doesn't have Hammerhead anymore. And Haunted Shack was the most missed attraction by guests when I was there. Stay far away from Ghostrider--people have been getting hurt on it, I remember hearing people who were coaster enthusiasts saying it's gotten rougher, and one lady broke her neck riding on it, which Knott's tried to blame on her. It's over at www.themeparkinsider.com .

[spacecadet101]

I know what an auto E-stop is, but what is a cascade?
Do you have to mannually e-stop after a cascade?
Are there other times you have to manualy e-stop.
What do CMs do that they get reprimanded for?

cascade:
Space is basically divided into 15 zones. Each zone has a brake in it. If someone takes too long to get out of the rocket, all the brakes at the unload area fill up, which makes the rockets out on track stop in the nearest brake so that none of them catch up to each other. In order for us to get back up, we have to go out onto the track and reset the zones with rockets one by one, as well as the three beginning zones. So depending on how many rockets are out on track it can take anywhere from 10 minutes to a half hour.

If we have an e-stop, usually something just flags a sensor, or maybe we didn't put enough time between trains and the computer stops the ride, thats a much longer reset. We have to go out and evac the guests, then reset the entire track, usually it takes about an hour.

MOST of our 101s are cascades, with slow guests.

how does this resetting process compare to the other attractions? I'm curious because I've never worked anything else. I'm sure that the rest of the coasters have better (quicker) programs to reset, since our ride system is from 1975.

[Teddykeiko86]

Space sounds very similar to Revenge of the Mummy the ride. There is a 15 sec load time to unload the returnig group, load the vehcile with the next group, then a 15 second wait period. If the whole unload and reload, check and dispatch takes longer than 30 seconds, and alarm sounds warning that the station is about to back up. The unload, load and check / dispatch happens in one spot, unlike Space that has 3 seperate spots. So, when guests take to long to get in their seat (usually trying to stuff an oversized back in the pouch even though they were specifically told to put in a locker), the cars stop in their break zone on the ride and cause an auto -estop. Very lame and happens a lot. As for Evacs go, I don't know much about that. I never had to do an evac! imagine that. but I think every time there is auto estop, we dump the ride and recycle. Also, Space is a continuous track, Mummy has two turn tables in the ride that reverse the direction of the car. So if a turn table acts up, it will not be in sync with the next arrive vehicle, there for another e-stop.
In 2006, they started e-stoping everytime a guest was seen on CCTV filming of photgraphing the ride. Also, if the guest took their shoes off or placed their feet on top of the footbar (bottom part of lap bar). We would have 10 mannual e-stops a day!. I got ridiculous, I think some CMs were trigger happy.

[kurtisnelson]

The unload, load and check / dispatch happens in one spot, unlike Space that has 3 seperate spots..
I think they designed our mummy much better with the track splitting into two for load/unload and then load being seperate from unload.

[CBeilby]

I think they designed our mummy much better with the track splitting into two for load/unload and then load being seperate from unload.

Your Mummy was just better designed in general, since they both had to share the same budget, and California got the short end of the stick.

[Main Streeter]

California got the short end of the stick.
As per usual. :(

[iheartny]

question: I understand why people switch rows, or do some of the wacky things they do. Believe me I know how it could be disgustingly annoying though... my question is, do you guys dislike the guests that are knowledgable and ask. For example, I like to be on the top row of Soarin' and in the first row of EE, I never change rows but I usually ask about these things.

I understand with Soarin' that I may have to wait for the next group. And I know there's a front row line for EE, but I wonder how guests like myself are viewed by CMs.

Thanks :p:

[mechurchlady]

question: I understand why people switch rows, or do some of the wacky things they do. Believe me I know how it could be disgustingly annoying though... my question is, do you guys dislike the guests that are knowledgable and ask. For example, I like to be on the top row of Soarin' and in the first row of EE, I never change rows but I usually ask about these things.

I understand with Soarin' that I may have to wait for the next group. And I know there's a front row line for EE, but I wonder how guests like myself are viewed by CMs.

Thanks :p:
As a guest and not a CM I am thankful for guests who ask politely for a special seat instead of trying to take it from me. On my birthday at DLR I asked for a front seat on Splash Mountain and got it. From what I read it is not a problem with polite guest but what irks them is the ones who jump seats thus causing the ride to shut down while the CMs have to untangle the mess.

[turkeyham]

Yesterday before BTRR went down I heard the cast member repeat, please remain seated under the lap bar. Of course for the safety of others, the ride went down and everyone had to reverse and walk off of it. :twisted:

Why is it when there is a fence around an area with sharp plants, that everyone's kids are playing in it? I saw security get the kids out of the area. A few minutes the kids were back. More security returned and locked loose items shut and warned the SG parents that the area has railings for a reason. Watch the little ones and keep them out! :mad::eek:

[lady ulrike]

question: I understand why people switch rows, or do some of the wacky things they do. Believe me I know how it could be disgustingly annoying though... my question is, do you guys dislike the guests that are knowledgable and ask. For example, I like to be on the top row of Soarin' and in the first row of EE, I never change rows but I usually ask about these things.

I understand with Soarin' that I may have to wait for the next group. And I know there's a front row line for EE, but I wonder how guests like myself are viewed by CMs.

Thanks :p:

As long as you ask early, it's fine. Basically, when the CM asks you how many in your group say x number and can we have the front (or whatever is appropriate for the attraction) I'll be perfectly honest, there are times when it can be a bit annoying, but I will always accommodate when possible. What upsets me is when someone is given a row, they go to it, the ride vehicle pulls up, and then they come back and ask for a particular row.