Quanto questan?

[goose]

In the past week, I've probably used almost as much Spanish while talking to guests as English. They rarely ask me if I speak Spanish, they just start talking. I know a little. But I don't have command over the entire language.

One guy came up to me and bought some chips. I told him 2.75 in English. He didn't understand so I just told him three in Spanish because I always forget how to say 75 cents. I gave him the quarter back of course. A couple mins later his wife comes up to me to make sure I charged him correctly. Maybe she should just take care of all of his purchases, then he wouldn't have to constantly fear that us gringos are ripping him off.

There was this older Spanish lady who tried to get my attention a couple of days ago. I was talking to another cast member. She didn't speak a word of English so she just started making this clicking noise with her tongue until I noticed her. It's ridiculous. You'd better believe that if I moved to Mexico I would brush up on my Spanish speaking skills. Is it too much to ask that immigrants learn a little bit of English?

[CujoSR]

Due to my name (which I won't mention here) I have had many problems with spanish speaking guests. I quickly learned "No Habla Espaniol. Uno Momento" while I ran to get the closest Spanish speaking CM. Luckily, half the train crew was Latino. My name is a spanish name but is also Italian, and German. Just because I have this name doesn't mean I speak the Italian and German too!!!

"But your name is Mexican."
"I am all White Boy!!! DO I LOOK LIKE I AM MEXICAN!!!"

I really am as white as they get. :bang:

[SirWillow]

You'd better believe that if I moved to Mexico I would brush up on my Spanish speaking skills. Is it too much to ask that immigrants learn a little bit of English?
I can sympathize. Trust me, I have to deal with a lot of Spanish speakers where I live. But remember to, that being at Disneyland, you're going to have a lot of those Spanish speakers not be residents of the US. A good number of them are tourists from other countries. I can't tell you how many tourists from Spain especially I seem to have run into this year, but it's been a bunch.

Obviously that's not true for all of them. But don't assume that they are immigrants here, especially not at a world known tourist park. :)

[wheelieman]

Post removed so as not to offend anyone by Dave the Poster. I apologize. When I first read this site I was mortified that anyone could think such horrible things about MY group [disabled ECV user]. I did get over it though. As for not having any posts about other minorities, obviously there are plenty about the disabled, but no one seemed offended by that...sooo...

=whistles an unrecognizable tune and slowly drives his scooter towards Main Street=

Dave

[SRT_GB]

ohhh my goodness I get this all the time. I can understand and speak quite a bit of Spanish from taking it in high school for four years, but I still don't speak it that well. Sometimes if I'm being bombarded by Spanish-speaking guests I'll flat out lie and say I don't speak at all just to save myself the trouble of having to deal with someone I can't understand. Anyways, it's always baffled me how people will walk up to me just busting out with Spanish, assuming I speak it. My first name is of Irish origin, and most of my friends say I look [insert my non-white, non-Latino race here].

[Weeble]

Hi, when I worked at D-land I was appaled by the comments from other cast members. I am mexican american. Cast members would crack jokes about mexicans right in front of me and when confronted they would say stuff like : yeah, but you don't act mexican.

Thank god I moved away from orange county and it's closed minded, xenophobic sheep.

By the way, yes this is a sore subject for me, it's one thing to discuss the difficulties of communicating with someone who speaks another language (look around, notice all the people from other countries at disneyland?) and quite another to say somebody had to get on a "donkey to go get Jose".

[/rant]

[wheelieman]

^Sorry Weeble, didn't mean to offend. It is TRUE, NOT an exaggeration. That is simply the way the phone system worked down there. Not meant to be derrogetory.

dave

[Dante101]

I grew up in Hermosa Beach, in LA County, and came in contact with very little racism. When I moved to Orange County and started working at Disneyland, it was very apparent how racist a lot of the cast members could be! What especially got me were CMs of one minority would be racist against other minorities - I never understood that. I guess it's like a kid who gets bullied, then turns around and bullies someone smaller than they are.

I don't understand that, either...

But, yeah - I always heard stories of life behind "the orange curtain," and how the people there were ultra conservative racists, but thought it was just BS. But still, I was blown away at the reality of it all.

[SirWillow]

^ Just one added comment. Just because someone is conservative does not make them a racist. Truthfully, some of the worst racists I've ever met were also among the most ideologically lilberal people I've ever met. They just might hide it in other language sometimes.

Sadly, racism comes in all sizes, shapes, colors, and beliefs. It is sad that there may be more in Orange County, but that isn't necessarily related to it also being conservative.

[BirdMom]

Intersting discussion. What I find amusing is that there are all sorts of quantifications for what/who is good and who is bad. Since I was born during the Eisenhower administration, I've been around here long enough to see a big change in O.C. The funny thing is that my family has been in this area longer than it's been United States territory. My grandmother's ancestors arrived here from Spain in the the early 19th century, so our people have been around for California's incarnations as not only the U.S. but New Spain and Mexico as well. I grew up speaking Spanish as my first language, but I get annoyed as much as anyone else when I run across someone who didn't come here legally and hasn't bothered to learn how to speak English, yet they expect me to be sympathetic to their plight because we have something in common - a language.

I wish my Spanish was better - I don't use it often enough. I need to relearn to speak French for school, although I've been told that for my purposes, it would be better to speak Italian and Greek (Art History major).

Having said that, enough with people moving here from somewhere else. I don't care if they're coming from Guatamala, Thailand or Idaho. Come here for a week - then get out already. Good riddence!!!!!!! There's too damn many people here. I miss the O.C. of wide open spaces, orange groves, clean beaches (with no tourist trap destinations other than Laguna) a few tracts here and there and no poseurs trying to tell you that "old money" is here in South County. Puh-leeze!!! :roll:

[Dante101]

^ Just one added comment. Just because someone is conservative does not make them a racist.
True - that's why I used both words in my description. Like "ugly motherf***er." Just because they are a "motherf***er" doesn't mean they are ugly, too. :wink:

Anyway, I'm saying that's how the people of Orange County were described to me - not by me.

From my experience, I've noticed quite a lot of racist views out here, but people being conservative is harder to notice in casual conversation - so I don't know if that's true or not...

[mahaihai]

So I have the same problem as all of you do. When i work i find that i spend at least haf of my time either talking in spanish or getting someone to translate for me. In the last 2 years i have learned how to sel tickets in spanish quite well and even ask for information on an annual pass but i still draw the line when guests just walk up to me and ASSUME that i speak spanish. If i see they are not comprehending me in English then i might bust into Espanol but i try not to. Why? Because, when in Rome do as the Romans. When i go to Mexico (which is quite often) i speak in spanish as much as i can. When i went to Europe on vacation i tried as hard as i could to speak the native tounge of the country i was in. I think what we are looking for is that same kind of respect. My biggest pet peeve is when a guest comes to me speaking spanish and then gets mad at me becuase i don't speak spanish. Sorry, i am white, corn fed and raised, i try when to speak spanish when i can but please try to speak english to me. Maybe if we all tried a little bit then we would all be better off. sorry for the rant but this is one of the things that drives me crazy about guests.. :x

[Weeble]

Unfortunately, it is socially acceptable to rag on certain groups as long as "everyone" is in on it. For example:

Fat jokes- perfectly acceptable to make them, laugh at fat people and make movies about fat people (shallow hal, nutty proffesor)

Homosexuals- Don't get that as much in Bay Area due to the large number of homosexuals but when I go back to OC and see acquaintences, they usually start in with "so are you a F@% yet?" (that's why they remain acquaintences and not friends)

Hispanic Immigrants- Perfectly acceptable to crack jokes, joke about their language skills or lack thereof, dehumanize them. (how many times have you referred to a hispanic person as an "illegal"? Did you get a lawyer and dig through the immigrant's paperwork before using that term?)

These are all socially acceptable things to joke about amongst people in America.

Would you be so quick to post a thread that went something like this? :

Blacks at Disneyland:
Ever notice how they all litter and cuss? Half of them look like gang members. But boy they keep the fried chicken stand happy!

And what about the jews? man they sure are tight with their money, and Eisner is a Jew too!

I agree with Birdmom to a certain extent, responsible immigration is the way to go. We need to fund the border patrol better to shut down the influx and then work towards legalizing who is already here, because trust me, you wouldn't want them all deported at once as much as you may think you would. Those that are here need assimilate to the culture, again, legalizing the people here helps in that regard. Right now, people may not take english classes due to crap like prop 187 which stated that Teachers were required to turn in "illegal immigrants" to the authorities.

I promised myself I wouldn't post anymore on this topic, but I can't help it.

[Fritter]

heh, well keep on posting man! As for the ragging on groups...guilty as charged here.

All I have to say though, has practically been said. I despise when a guest comes up and starts talking to me like I know it. Now, I can't say that I am all white, because I'm a dark skinned filipino, which I guess can be translated into 'that girl knows spanish.' It does bug me and I do especially hate when you get the angry ones who get mad at you because you don't know it. BAh!

[goose]

I'm sure that anyone in ODV, if honest, could tell you that there are definite similarites in certain ethnic groups that you notice when they approach your cart. Just certain things. Certain groups tend to say or do things more that other groups. One group will complain about the prices more, certain groups will cut in line more, certain groups will complain about the service or product more. White folks aren't except from my observations either.

I can't help but notice it. And I don't think that I'm a terrible person for making those observations. I think it would be wrong of me to say: "Mexicans are always doing this..." or "Blacks always do this..." That would definitley be wrong. And I don't automatically assume that a person of a certain race will do this or say that.

I think it has a lot to do with culture and not specific race or ethnicity. Anyways, that's my peace. Agree or disagree, that's fine.

[TREKKINGUY]

Oh she was making a clicking noise? she was speaking dolphin of course, now dont tell me you dont speak dolphin! or maybe she was just cold and the silver caps on her teeth were just clanking together, lol

[CujoSR]

^ That was profound.

[Weeble]

And I don't automatically assume that a person of a certain race will do this or say that.
But you did make assumptions about her.

You'd better believe that if I moved to Mexico I would brush up on my Spanish speaking skills. Is it too much to ask that immigrants learn a little bit of English?
You assumed that this spanish speaking person was:

A. Mexican
B. An Immigrant

Is it possible she was visiting here from Argentina?

I don't mean to pick on you specifically Goose, A LOT of people think this way. Only when it is brought out into the open and people recognize it can it ever be solved.

[wheelieman]

^Just curious, Weeble, how come you didn't jump in to the discussion like this when people were making fun of the guests that use ECV's? And they were talking about doing actual physical harm to those people.

Dude, let it go. I DID.

Dave

Okay, that's it. I'm Banned. Sorry.

[Weeble]

An excellent point Dave, I didn't jump in because it doesn't hit close to home for me. If it was bothering you however, you should have spoken up, you would have been backed up. Don't ever let a group intimidate you with their words!

I don't think we can be banned for discussing a controversial topic. At the very most the topic can be closed and deemed not relevant to the boards. You are right though about letting it go, I hereby drop this topic since it's been beaten to death!

:hammer:

[CujoSR]

BAM!!! YOUR BANNED...

J/K There's no reason to ban you... yet. :twisted:

[littlehope]

I agree when people come up to me and start speaking another language besides Englsih it gets frustrating. But this story has a twist...I was working a cart in toontown when a lady comes up to me and starts ordering in spanish...I know a little bit so I told her the price... she then started to correct my spanish in english (really good english too). If she knew english, why didn't she say her order in english, that is just frustrating. She then went on to say if I don't know a language well then I shouldn't speak it...I just said I'm sorry and finished the transaction.

[GMC]

My only problem with forgeign langauge speakers, who will come up to you and start saying something to you in their native tounge, to see if you also speak the language, and then just saying stuff to you really fast, to eliminate any chance of translation, you can tell because they'll give a sly look to their family, and then they all laugh, and start at it agian. Or the Lady who said the same five syallables over and over again (i'm not even sure it was actually spanish) and then saying my family. She got all butt hurt when I told her in spanish that she couldn't do what it was she had wanted to do. So it's not that i'm mad at them for not speaking my language, but moreso that i'm mad that they try and use it against me.

[leftcoaster]

My only problem with forgeign langauge speakers, who will come up to you and start saying something to you in their native tounge, to see if you also speak the language, and then just saying stuff to you really fast, to eliminate any chance of translation, you can tell because they'll give a sly look to their family, and then they all laugh, and start at it agian. Or the Lady who said the same five syallables over and over again (i'm not even sure it was actually spanish) and then saying my family. She got all butt hurt when I told her in spanish that she couldn't do what it was she had wanted to do. So it's not that i'm mad at them for not speaking my language, but moreso that i'm mad that they try and use it against me.
Two words: "No Habla" And keep repeating that. Or reply to them in Pig Latin; or to quote Steve Martin: "voo doo svee, la voo doo la swa"

I'm tired of these (not you GMC) fucking immigrants who come to this country and expect everything to be handed to them, and they don't even have the decency to speak or even ATTEMPT to speak ENGLISH.

THIS IS AMERICA. WE SPEAK ENGLISH HERE.

[Stduck]

Well since the United States of America doesn't have a national langauge (you can all thank President Clinton for not signing that Bill), we technically have no right to bitch. (Oh but I do anyway).

Sorry but when I travel I try my best to learn a few phrases in the langauge most comonly spoken in the area I am visiting. In the case of America....ENGLISH. Sorry I failed Spanish in high school, I don't speak anything but English. Don't get mad at me for not knowing how to speak your language, if you need someone who can I'll gladly get my lead to radio for the nearest person who has a langauge pin in your langauge.

[abc]

I know a bit of spanish, but what I'll do is if they right off the bat ramble some spanish off I'll just respond in really bad spanish. "es cerrado" or "si senorita" or "a las ocho quatro cinco". Whats funny is when they do ask me "do you speak spanish, or hables espanol", and I respond "yo hablo espanol un poquito" they always almost begin speaking perfect english, or well enough for me to understand.

[Zazu]

THIS IS AMERICA. WE SPEAK ENGLISH HERE.
Yeah, maybe. But most folks don't speak it very well. And some rude people just shout it!

Sorry, but I don't get the problem with guests (or even fellow CMs) who aren't fluent in English. I have a problem with guests & CMs who have an *attidude*, or who won't believe me when I tell them something, but getting angry because we don't share a common language? That is *so* far down my list it hardly registers.

You can bitch about language if you like, but I'm saving mine for bitching about stupid.

[Yfoog]

A person that speaks two languages: BILINGUAL
A person that speaks three languages: TRILINGUAL
A person that speaks one language: AMERICAN

[GMC]

*puts on his sarcastic hat* so it's UN-American to speak only one language now!? Well i'm going to start my own country, and the language will change whenever i feel like it! German will be forbidden, and replaced with GMCeese (gee-m-sees), and everyone will want to live there! It'll be called QGMERICA (Guh-Merica!)

[Yfoog]

You can bitch about language if you like, but I'm saving mine for bitching about stupid.
How about bitching about a stupid language? (mainly English)
- How come phonetic isn't spelled the way it sounds?
- English has grammer rules that aren't an exact science. For example, I before E, except after C... (except for the word, SCIENCE)
- If insane means not sane and insensitive means not sensitive, than why does inflamable refer to somthing that burns well?

Edited by Polar33: Fixed BBCode

[GMC]

or we could just stop bitching.

[dannydp]

Taken from MIStupid, the online Knowledge magazine (www.mistupid.com):

Reasons why the english language is hard to learn:

The bandage was wound around the wound.
The farm was used to produce produce.
The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
He could lead if he would get the lead out.
The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
I did not object to the object.
There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
They were too close to the door to close it.
The buck does funny things when the does are present.
A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
After a number of injections my jaw got number.
Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't invented in England nor French fries in France. Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet, are meat.

We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig. And why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham? If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn't the plural of booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So one moose, 2 meese? One index, 2 indices? Doesn't it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend, that you comb through annals of history but not a single annal? If you have a bunch of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it? If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital? Ship by truck and send cargo by ship? Park on driveways and drive on parkways? Have noses that run and feet that smell? How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites? You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which your house can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill in a form by filling it out and in which an alarm goes off by going on.

English was invented by people, not computers, and it reflects the creativity of the human race (which, of course, isn't a race at all). That is why, when the stars are out, they are visible, but when the lights are out, they are invisible? And why, when I wind up my watch, I start it, but when I wind up this essay, I end it? English is a silly language — it doesn't know if it is coming or going.

[Zazu]

You can bitch about language if you like, but I'm saving mine for bitching about stupid.
How about bitching about a stupid language? (mainly English)
- How come phonetic isn't spelled the way it sounds?
Because English is a composite language built from pieces of many other languages -- much as American culture is built from pieces of many other cultures. I happen to think that both are a good thing, and if both introduce inconsistencies, that's the price we pay for the richness and variety.

- English has grammer rules that aren't an exact science. For example, I before E, except after C... (except for the word, SCIENCE)
English grammar rules are an *evolving* science. It wasn't that long ago that wits ridiculed those who knew but one way to spell a word. Similarly, much of the richness of English is the ability to say (nearly) the same thing in a number of different ways. (And wouldn't poetry be a sad thing if this were not so?)

BTW, spelling rules aren't the same as grammar rules.

- If insane means not sane and insensitive means not sensitive, than why does inflamable refer to somthing that burns well?
Becuase people don't understand that these words come from different roots. My grandfather was the Chief Safety Officer for two major west coast refineries, and fought a non-stop (and losing) battle against the use of "inflamable" and for the use of "flamable".

Sometimes, things don't make sense because they *are* stupid, which is sorta the whole point here, isn't it?


[Note: never debate grammar or spelling with a former magazine editor, we can go on for hours (or days) like this!]

[SRT_GB]

One index, 2 indices?
Actually "indices" is an acceptable plural form of "index" (along with "indexes"), and this spelling is often used in mathematics and sciences.

Anyways, to derail this topic back to what we were talking about, one thing that always annoyed me (and happened to me yesterday) is when the person in the party who speaks the least English asks me a question. I try to explain the answer in as simple English as I can, and then after I take forever trying to explain, someone else in the party who speaks fluent English and was standing there the whole time intervenes. Makes me think, why the heck didn't that person just ask me the question?

[leftcoaster]

American English is a multi-cultural language. We have words from Russia, Finland, Spain, Mexico, UK, France, Canada, Italy, etc etc etc.

Many of those words are "americanized" - endings chopped off, spellings changed, etc. Heck, even objects are not called the same thing in different parts of the USA. Try asking the cashier at the mini-mart to put your munchies in a "sack" in Philadelphia.

One hundred years (or more) ago, immigrants HAD to learn English in order to really do anything in their new country. Now, everyone has to cater to them. We have multi-lingual signs, driver's tests, voice mail systems, etc. While I agree that there is a growing number of non-English speaking people in the USA, I think that we need to stop "catering" to them. If they don't "need" to learn English, they won't.

I'm waiting for the 5 language spiel at WDW when the monorail doors open and close. :roll: