one city hall special, please! [Archive]

tourbunny

07-13-2003, 07:39 PM

ahhh another pleasent day in city hall. it is always amuzing to see what excuses poeple come up with to get the special assistance passes. most teens ask for a birthdaysticker first because that is so cute the we just cant resist to throw in an sap with that. we call it the city hall special "sap and a birthdaysticker , please!"
anyway, today took the cake in dumb excuses.
lady (cradeling her 9 year old boy):"can i get a front of the line pass please?"
me:" who is it for?"
lady:" my 9 year old son here"
me:" what type of assistance does he need?"
lady (holding his ears shut):" we just had to put his dog to sleep last night. he is not really emmotionally ready to stand in line for 2 hours!"
me:( :bang: )" uhhhhm, it wont prevent you from standing in line, ma'am."
lady:" just gimme the $#%^ pass i know you are not able to refuse it to anyone!!!!!"
well, lemme tell ya i put a hex on that pass. may bad carma hide in her backseat on the way home!
what a stupid excuse to get that pass.

Fritter

07-15-2003, 01:33 PM

I think it's stupid when people are too lazy to wait in line when they're physically capable of doing so. I just think it's bad karma to do that.

Freak

07-24-2003, 07:02 PM

Wow, emotionally unable to stand in a 2 hour line eh? I've had a death in my family (grandparent), and that night I could be seen standing in line for the Mansion. Obviously a dog must be MUCH MORE emotionally painful to have put down :roll:. But then this is me, I'm used to death.

Morrigoon

08-01-2003, 03:17 AM

So today this guest walks up to me, holds out an SAP and says, "I have this pass that's supposed to get me to the front of the line, where do I go?"

I replied, "Well, actually sir, that's a pass to get you into the special assistance line, and that's up our exit."

Okay, doesn't sound as biting as it felt, but then way he said front of the line, like it was some special privilege and not an accommodation of special needs just rubbed me the wrong way, so I couldn't resist reminding him it wasn't a "front of the line" pass.

tourbunny

08-01-2003, 09:45 PM

that is usually what we say to them in city hall when they ask us for a "front of the line pass" we just tell them that we dont have such thing and just stare at them what they say next. most of them are teens anyways so they figuer their little scam did not work and walk away with their heads down.
it frustrates the #$%^ out of me if people dont even say hallo or answer to our fake smile and two part greeting, they just throw the doctors note on the counter and dont say anything or just go "6 people!"
i just stand there and stare at them until they notice and then they either say i am rude or finaly say what they actually want.
and then there are the truly cute ones. when i ask them who the pass is for, needing to write down a name, their answer just is "it's for my cousin". after about 2 minutes of dead silence they ask me what the hell is the matter with me, i just answer that i was trying to channel in on guessing the cousins name.
mostly we all get a laugh out of that, all staff that is...

PoohBunniesHutch

08-01-2003, 11:10 PM

I have to use a SAP. I boke my back in two places last year and have permanent nerve damage and paralysis in my left leg and no sensation in my right leg. I'm in a wheelchair sometimes, and sometimes I have a really good day and can use a cane, but for a very limited time. I am limited to only a few good hours a day and the SAP pass helps to make my time as DLR as enjoyable as someone who isn't in constant pain as I and able to be mobile. It reallly irritates me to see those groups of teenagers and families with no apparant disabilities now clogging the SAP line. I don't ever expect to get front of the line priviledges and am very grateful for the SAP. With SAP lines longer than some standby lines, I worry that because of a few frauds *actually many now) the SAP wil be revoked. And that would be a shame for those who really need it!

BirdMom

08-02-2003, 01:12 PM

With SAP lines longer than some standby lines, I worry that because of a few frauds *actually many now) the SAP wil be revoked. And that would be a shame for those who really need it!

It's usually obvious to the experienced eye just who does and doesn't need an SAP. It's just a shame that certain managers have caved to the demands of people who don't have an honest need for assistance and who feel entitled to jump most lines I used to look at the bottoms of peoples (usually teens) shoes for wear to see if they really needed a wheelchair. Comeon - no crutches or casts - no obvious sign of ill health? Who do they think they're kidding? Especially the ones who look rather muscular in the legs if they have the gall to be wearing shorts...

Dante101

08-02-2003, 02:55 PM

Maybe I'm just ignorant about the issue, but why do people get a pass for having Attention Deficit Disorder? Doesn't that just mean the person is hyperactive? So it may be hard for them to stand in line, but why would that be a reason to bypass the line? It's not like it'll damage them in some way to stand in line. All kids hate standing in line, and are often hard to control.

Old Crow

08-02-2003, 04:20 PM

Dante101

08-02-2003, 04:35 PM

Yeah, but someone already posted that their management doesn't allow them to ask questions or deny a pass. It's a management decision.

I think the policy will stand until enough people complain about it, as they'll weigh the complaints for giving too many passes against those against giving too many passes.

tourbunny

08-02-2003, 07:50 PM

Like I've said in the past, the people handing these things out need to grow a spine and start inquiring why these people need such passes. Is it that they don't want conflict in their lives and cave too soon?

hunny you have hit a very sore spot in my life. in the past 2 1/2 years i have been working as a plaid we have had close to 20 people quitting because of the sap system. they just could not take it anymore that we can't refuse to say no to obvious liars. managemant gives us progressive discipline for disney courtesy if we get cought refusing to give the pass to anyone. we have people crying on a daily basis because 8 hours of teens lieying in our face is breaking us apart. so it is not that we dont have a spine to say no it is because some of us actually have to pay rent, thus we have to keep our job. so i am going to give the benefit of the dought to you and think that you dont know any better but you have really hurt my feelings with your comment.
i will just have you know that it was i who started the whole thing about writing the persons age and wether or not they are using a wheelchair on the pass and i have gotten nothing but praise from attractionspeole for that and in the end also a verbal for courtesy out of that.
all of our hands are bound and it kills us!
people suck and they all come to talk to us!

PoohBunniesHutch

08-02-2003, 10:12 PM

Knotts Berry Farm requires a copy of your handicapped placard or a note from a physician. Asking for a copy of the placard in no way discriminates against any type of disability since a physician's prescription is required to obtain a placard. And, for a temporary disability, a doctor's note says not what the disability is, but for how long the disability is expected to last. Its a fair system, doesn't discriminate on the basis of type of disability and it prevents fraud and abuse by healty individuals. And when I was a teenager, I fell and broke my leg just before our annual trip to Disneyland. The solution was simple enough, we'd just rent a wheelchair. Nothing doing said my father, if I weren't well enough to venture on my own two feet, then I wasn't going to Disneyland. Disneyland could wait until I was healed. When we were there last, I pointed out to my father a teen with her arm in a cast in a wheelchair and SAP'ing it with 5 of her closest friends....He wanted to know why she needed a chair if it were her arm broken and I replied that if she fell to break her arm, it was possible that she was too clumsy to walk. And then he responded that if she were that clumsy, she didn't belong at Disneyland. Staying home is not an option for those who travel many miles for a yearly vacation, so there is the SAP system to handle permanent and temporary disabilities, not front of the line priviledges for the brazen frauds. It is apalling that you are being written up for policing frauds! You should adopt a fair and impartial system: if you have a placard, you obviously have a mobility disability(even those with asthma, diabetes and heart conditions qualify) and if you don't, then bring a note from your physician. And by the way, ADD/ADHD does not qualify for a placard, but autism, cerebal palsy, etc. does....Obesity, when it prevents mobility does, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome does, disabilites that affect endurance do, etc., etc.....It all fits into being fair and in preventing fraud-If Knotts Berry Farm can do it, then why not Disneyland (by they way, Knotts is out of the question for me since I am unable to tolerate rides that are rough in nature) and Knotts makes it very clear in signs all over the place, including ticket booths, that a SAP pass is available with the presentation of a placard or note from a physician and furthermore, ECV's are available only to those who can prove a disability or provide a note. Wheelchairs are availble to everybody. But DLR has found a cash cow in ECV rentals, so I do not see them limiting those rentals. ANd one last point, the soles of my shoes are barely worn....its a great money saver-lol!

Polar33

08-03-2003, 01:13 AM

SRT_GB

08-03-2003, 02:46 AM

Interesting, I always thought there was some ADA/discrimination issue behind not being allowed to ask for proof for a SAP. Knowing that it's just annother redundant Disney policy ticks me off. I'm sure most guests who actually have a valid reason for needing a SAP wouldn't mind showing some simple form of proof, if anything to help eliminate those who are trying to cheet the system. Instead we have to let the get away with it, so they don't get pissed off....typical.
I'm with you on that. I was actually told at one point that it's a discrimination issue. It really makes me mad that I have to rent wheelchairs to teenagers who fake dragging one leg as they walk up to the counter, then when they leave the counter they drag the other leg. Lately whenever kids who rent wheelchairs ask me for a "front of the line pass" I just flat out tell them, Disneyland doesn't give front of the line passes for the disabled. After all, I'm not lying to them.

As for ECVs being cash cows, Disney only makes $30 per ECV, times about 50 ECVs that we rent in a typical busy day. If we wanted to we could limit ECVs to people who show proof of disability and still sell out. It frustrates me that someone who is perfectly capable of walking the park has to rent an ECV just because they're lazy. I don't even see why these morons actually want to look disabled. Then on busy days when we run out I have to explain to an 85-year-old grandmother in a walker that we're out because some perfectly mobile 20-year-olds rented them earlier.

PoohBunniesHutch

08-03-2003, 08:44 AM

If you ask for proof of diability, that is not a discrimination/ADA issue (which are two seperate things). If you dispense passes based on the type of diability, then it is a discrimination issue. Its the same as the handicapped parking only available for those whose physicians have determined that they have a disability and have issued a handicapped placard prescription (which the DMV does request the type of diability, but they do not issue placards to some disabilites and not the others-the request for that information is purely for demographic collections, not for determining eligibility, which is the physician's responsibility). The park is ADA compliant as it is. That is, there are physical attributes of the park that make it ADA compliant. Renting of wheelchairs, ECV's and dispensing of SAP passes are things that increase the comfort of their guest, but do not make the park or its employees ADA compliant. Take costco for example, they make available in some stores, ECVs and wheelchairs. But their stores are ADA compliant without these items (they have roll in access-no steps, wheelchair accessible restrooms, all items are available at wheelchair height, etc.) but the ADA does not require them to hand out front of the line passes, even though some of those lines at times can be quite long, longer than at Disneyland. Now if they were to start handing out SAPs and noting or requring the type of diability and then making decisions about wether that is a disability worthy of an SAP, then that would be discrimination, but not an ADA issue as the ADA does not require that you provide transportation or any extra priviledge for the disabled, just that walkways, restaurants, bathrooms and shopping be accessible for the handicapped guest.

Dante101

08-03-2003, 09:56 AM

I'll play Devil's Advocate here and say the reasons I think D'land's policy is that way it is.

I've worked in the Park 15 years, and have seen the crap management can go through. It could be a simple matter of upper managment seeing all the complaints in a certain department, and "ordering" lower management to "shape up" and lower the volume of complaints. So the lower management gets into a frame of mind where they just want to please everybody - hence "SAPs for all!"

Or it could be a simple case of the Park management caught in a no-win situation. They'll get complaints if they limit wheelchairs, and they'll get complaints if they give too many wheelchairs.

Based on that scenerio, the SAP situation would ebb and flow, just like a lot of Park policies in the past. Remember a few years back when the policy was an unlimited number of guests could ride with one SAP pass? That didn't last long.

That being said, I'm all for restricting SAPs to those who either have a doctor's note or an obvious handicap. But on the same subject, I also dislike the Fastpass system. It may be a good selling point in advertising, but it makes the lines longer; and only helps people in certain situations, and if they plan their visit carefully.

I've only been gone since last November, but I think that Fastpass is a bigger "injustice" to the average guest than fraudulent SAPs.

BirdMom

08-03-2003, 03:04 PM

Or it could be a simple case of the Park management caught in a no-win situation. They'll get complaints if they limit wheelchairs, and they'll get complaints if they give too many wheelchairs.

I can vouch for both ways on wheelies. Back in 91, our policy was that the person in the wheelchair plus one additional person would be backdoored. That had worked for years and years without major complaints, but for some reason people started getting vocal. The ones I remember the most were families where it was some stupid kid with a cast on the leg (so you knew it was a temporary situation - plus the kid was liftable size anyway) and they would start barking that "you're breaking up our family!" They briefly caved and said everyone in the wheelie party could be backdoored. Word got out really fast, and we'd get Girl Scout troops of maybe 30 girls, plus all the troop leaders and chaparones with ONE kid (broken leg - temporary!!!!) in a wheelchair. I can still picture them clogging up the unload dock on Pirates ... anyhoo, the "regular" guests started complaining about that and so it went to a total of 4 being backdoored - of course that was before they started making the queues wheelchair accessable. Don't know what policy changes have happenned in between - I quit in 95 and there was no such thing as an SAP then. I can remember some guests having letters from Make-a-Wish or other organizations that they'd show us at turnstyles or gates, and we'd go ahead and backdoor them as a courtesy. Of course, I can also remember dreading "Happy Hearts" weeks not from a humanistic standpoint, but from a logistical one. Having to make announcements over at Bear Band that the front two rows were reserved for wheelchair parties - and seeing ablebodied guests be piggy anyway despite all those hardcore handicapped kids...grrrrrr!!!! :x Having capacity whittled away to nothing because of all the groups...I mean, you did what you could to make them comfortable and the experience enjoyable, but jeeze - we earned every penny we made those weeks...

tourbunny

08-03-2003, 10:35 PM

i am so glad to hear all of your comments and you realy hit the nailon the head. we oftertimes ask management, why we can't ask for proof and they flat out sayed it's a guest service that disney provides do it can't be denied to anyone because veryone needs to be offered the same service. and yes they admitted that they just don't want any complaints. pregnant women are one of the worst. if you can't tollerate your gut in line for 1/2 hr then why the <bleep> did you come to disneyland in 95 degrees weather in the middle of the sommer. yes in the state of california last trimesters of pregnancies are seen as short term disability but c'mon be reasonable. also all the guests that complaine that it is the law to have imidiate bording i always tell them that the ada law of california only stipulates to provide a more comfortable bording area NOT help with waittimes!
the highboss of guest services was actually observed refusing sap's to people that dont deserve it or make them get a wheelchair as a testprogram but regulars like me were forbidden to say no. not a lot of complaints have been voiced when she refused. corporate legal sayes there have not been enough written complaints about misuse to change something so now we "chat up" realy disabled people to see if they wanne leave a written concern about them observing teens take their rightfull spot in line. we already have over 50 in the past two weeks. :twisted:
they say that there are serious changes ahead because the new boss woman doesn't like the system but i beleive it when i see it.
it used to be that you had to go to first aid to be "evaluated" if you fit the requirenments for an sap. i say "bring that back!"

Dante101

08-03-2003, 10:47 PM

You bring up a new rant subject for me:

I hate when they changed the rules from "pregnant guests can not ride" to "pregnant guests should not ride." It really drove me nuts during those last few years at the Park - trying to explain to people that they shouldn't ride Star Tours because they are constantly being thrust up against the seat belt. And a lot of these people that still insisted on riding had never ridden the damn ride before!!!

I don't mind when pregnant people visit Disneyland, but stay off the damn thrill rides!!! It's not that much different than being in a car crash...
:hammer:

BirdMom

08-04-2003, 01:25 PM

I hate when they changed the rules from "pregnant guests can not ride" to "pregnant guests should not ride."

Let's see - liability vs. complaints.........hmmmmmm....which will make a Disney executive cave faster???

You know, I remeber a certain ride operator with a really slutty reputation (no it wasn't me...lol!) who ended up pregnant and repeatedly rode Space Mtn. hoping for a spontaneous miscarriage because she didn't want to have to pay for an abortion...

You see EVERYTHING when you've worked there long enough :roll:

disneydyke

08-04-2003, 03:16 PM

I hate it when I get this way, but... did it work?

Weeble

08-05-2003, 09:21 AM

I'm curious too.

:pbjtime:

Old Crow

08-05-2003, 05:16 PM

so i am going to give the benefit of the dought to you and think that you dont know any better but you have really hurt my feelings with your comment

Didn't mean to hurt your feelings but the question was basically aimed at managment, not the CM that the guest sees on the outside. I know you are just doing your job and that you have to put up with how the company runs it's business. Proof of being "handicapted" should be presented in such cases. The idea of being checked is nice too. Obviously you guys have seen what has worked in the past and what should be happening now to prevent such frauds.

I've seen so many kids being "wheeled" around by their friends at the speed of light, taking corners way to fast just becuase it was fun to be in a wheel chair and ride with their friends. Now if you are truely disabled, you should get a SAP and everthing should more comfortable for you to ride certain attractions. I'd gladly give up my space in line or wait 2 or three trains for a disabled person to get the chance to ride. It's just these fraud cases that really piss me off and the lack checking every case to make sure it's valid.

PoohBunniesHutch

08-05-2003, 05:59 PM

Being disabled is absoultely no fun at all. I have to depend upon others for assistance and its frustrating to be at the whim of others. Achieving mobility for a disabled person is a long term of training and re-learning and being dependent on others for things you all take for granted. It means giving up your wishes in order to not inconveniece anybody. And it really sucks when those teens play as if it is fun to be in a wheelchair and laugh and be giddy. If they really knew what it was like, maybe they wouldn't find it so amusing!

BirdMom

08-06-2003, 02:46 PM

I hate it when I get this way, but... did it work?

Nope.

She ended up having a quickie wedding to another CM, then they got divorced after the kid was born...

Personally, I think the kid was conceived somewhere in the bowels of the big house...

Weeble

08-07-2003, 10:47 AM

Hmmm, if they had stuck to the bowels, they wouldn't be in that situation....

:pbjtime:

God I love having no class.

BirdMom

08-08-2003, 01:49 PM

Hmmm, if they had stuck to the bowels, they wouldn't be in that situation....

True, but the Supreme Court hadn't given sodomy the o.k. back then...

Weeble

08-09-2003, 09:10 AM

Either way it would be criminal, criminal if they went to the bad place and criminal if she had that kid.

BirdMom

08-10-2003, 02:31 PM

Either way it would be criminal, criminal if they went to the bad place and criminal if she had that kid.

Well, whattaya gonna do? One of the mysteries in this world is the fact that you need to get a license to do everything from fishing and owning a bicycle or pet to driving and of course, getting married, but you don't need to pass a test, let alone get a license to contribute to the gene pool...and anyone who worked at Disneyland at a certain period in the early 90's knows of more than one set of scary couples there who ended up having children together...eeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!! I can think of one kid in particular who ended up being a carbon copy of his daddy, a former r.o. who wasn't the brightest bulb in the pack...

Freak

08-10-2003, 10:52 PM

.....you need to get a license to do everything......owning a bicycle

What the hell? I need a license for my bike?

Dante101

08-10-2003, 11:07 PM

Don't admit online to not having a bike licence! You'll have every cop in the county swarming all over your place!! :P

BirdMom

08-11-2003, 02:15 PM

CujoSR

08-11-2003, 04:42 PM

Don't admit online to not having a bike licence! You'll have every cop in the county swarming all over your place!! :P

Huh? :? Ummmmm...the city of Huntington Beach made everyone register their bicycles with the city at one time (cheap - like $1.00)...so sue me, if I had to follow the rules to ride my bike to school...the cops there were even stinkers about handing out traffic tickets. While in Jr. High, I got one for riding my bike on the wrong side of the road - actually the sidewalk - and even though I politely explained to the officer that I was trying to avoid getting run over (it was a busy main thouroughfare), he still wrote me up. You and I have so much in common. I'm an HB boy myself and Iv'e gotton hit a few times by those damn motor cops. The one time I remember was when this cop followed me on the sidewalk for two block on his motorcycle after I passed him at Bravo Burger. Scared the living daylight out of me when he pulled his siren right behind me.

TheManator

10-21-2003, 05:56 PM

On the subject of pregnant women and them getting SAPs..

It'll probably take one of these pregnant women riding stuff like Star Tours or Space getting in a serious accident to get managment's head in the right direction.

Not to sound mean or anything, but it sounds like an accident is the ONLY way to get management to change policy.

CujoSR

10-21-2003, 06:12 PM

Oh believe me, we know.

Anonymous

11-02-2003, 01:10 PM

I remember one time a fellow CM told me that this pregnant woman came on one of the Mountains ( Either Matterhorn , Splash not sure which one it was ) pregnant. The CM told them they shouldn't ride because of her condition and it would be safe if she just waited for the rest of her party to get off the ride, she replied. "I don't care, I have 6 other kids" Or something along those lines. Sad, huh? People just don't care anymore. :cry: Oh well. . .

About SAP's....I really hate the ones who use and abuse them. People get so ticked off at me because their cousin or whoever's name is on the pass doesn't want to go on the ride, so they just let the rest of the party use their pass. But the one who's name is on it has to be with everyone. The pass is for them and their party, not just the party. So when I tell them they can't go on unless the passes owner is with them they get all mad at me. Or when at Mansion SAP's go through FP. It's only 5 minutes and they freak out because it's a 5 minute wait. And they get out of the line and go straight to the house. We tell them thats the line they wait in and then they yell at us because now they lost their place in line. We didn't tell them to get out of line and come straight to the house. We tell them at the front you go through the FP line. You don't see any FP people get out of line to go straight to the front of the house. Oooh! I hate this too. SAPers who has a SAP with the wrong date. "Well, that's what they gave me at City Hall" "I'm sorry, but you need todays date on it. Other wise you can't use it." "But they gave this to me today!" "I'm really sorry ma'am. I really don't think they'll give you a SAP with a date from two months ago." And they get pissed off at me and storm away.

About Wheelchairs:

What amazes me at Mansion is that at times we get a guest who some how gets their wheelchair over our turnstyles at the exit, comes all the way down the exit ramp and sits there at unload. Asking. "How do we get on?" I'm thinking "Okay if you can lift your wheelchair over the turnstyles, go down the ramp which is moving the opposite way your walking you don't need that wheelchair."

cheshire

11-03-2003, 01:57 PM

Before you get an SAP you should have to sit and read the entire SAP manual and then take a test.

1) How many people can go with you?
2) Where is the SAP enterence for Haunted Mansion, Splash and Pooh?
3) Are you guaranteed immediate boarding?

and other important things.

lyricanjl

11-03-2003, 05:40 PM

I had one SAP lady--walking--cut in front of a line in a hat shop and demand that she be next, since she had the SAP and couldn't wait for the other people to get their hats done. I politely told her that SAPs were for attractions only and she had an absolute fit. I continued helping the guests I already had and she flitted out still in a snit, without the hats. I've been waiting for my Guest Complaint for months now.

theEpiphany

11-12-2003, 08:36 AM

Actually doesnt WDW have several levels of SAP? Actually some friends of mine got into a conversation with Matt Ouimet on the subject of SAPs (He was in FLA a few weeks ago when we were there). He started talking about how he wants to reform it like WDW's is..and not just have it as a "One pass to rule them all" sort of thing. Which I think is great.

As a guest I have actually voiced my opinion on the matter several times to guests and stupid teenagers. I have no issues with belittling people who use the damn things. Including someone I heard talking about how they and their friends were going to beat the system. Asthma was their final decision :::smack:::.

Zazu

11-12-2003, 09:10 AM

theEpiphany wrote:Actually doesnt WDW have several levels of SAP?

Yup, in fact they just changed the SAP system (again) this month. Now there are seven rubber stamps for different things, and each SAP card can have two stamps.

Wonder how long it will be before these cards and stamps show up on eBay?

theEpiphany

11-12-2003, 11:39 AM

Thanks for the Clarification Zazu. I can only hope that Ouimet excercises some power and does away with these damn things. It's probably the number 1 gripe I have on a long list regarding guests.

-D

VonSeegs

11-12-2003, 01:56 PM

2 days ago I was standing at EOL at Mansion. It was crazy busy so I had like 20,000 people passing me like every minute. I only noticed this lady after she said excuse me and held up her SAP and asked if she was in the right line. I nicely explained that no, she had gone into the stand-by line and she wanted to go into the fastpass return line just to the right. She said ok and duck under the stupid chain to get out and then said that she was waiving her pass in front of me as she passed me. I said I'm sorry. I don't respond to waiving things in front of me. Especially if I don't see them. I overheard her say to her family oh, see doesn't respond to this, as she was waiving her stupid pass again.

You know, it's not that hard to read that little purple book and then look up and read a sign. I don't get it.

Zazu

11-12-2003, 02:51 PM

...she was waiving her pass in front of me as she passed me. I said I'm sorry. I don't respond to waiving things in front of me. Especially if I don't see them. I overheard her say to her family oh, see doesn't respond to this, as she was waiving her stupid pass again.
Ah, if only guests would do that here. The usual practice is to barge in through the exit, pushing other guests out of the way, ignoring our calls to turn around, that entrances work better than exits. Then, just as I'm about to call security, they pull out the SAP and ask, "Does this help?"
:Flame:

theEpiphany

11-13-2003, 12:48 PM

SpaceRanger

11-14-2003, 12:26 PM

Mansion huh...heh..That's where I spend most of my time at DL...The problems with guests at the Mansion are absolutely amazing. Maybe it's just that it's because Inotice it because that's where my general "group" hangs out. Half the time we (I) go to the mansion just to sit and talk with the CMs and people watch..I swear one could do a socialogy thesis on the dumbing down of society once they are through the entrance.

Oh, I have... BS'd a whole psychology paper writing about things that stupid guests do in the park. Hey- class was in just two hours, and I couldn't think of anything else to write about lol

Tim Gaines

11-22-2003, 10:01 PM

:twisted: I can't lie ... muwhahah. Whenever I goto the park, err, WENT to the park, I use to get an SAP, of course I'd have another member in my party get it. The way I figure, we come, we ride, then we leave. The quicker we do what we wanted to do, the sooner we'd free the park up for a paying guest, but lets face it, after a while we all begin to dispise the guests... ( I think it sets in at 5-6 months) After a year, DEATH to the guests, DEATH I SAY..

Sorry to all of those nice plaid wearing people who my friends lied to, if they could come up and say "I want an SAP" theyd do it :D WHADDUP!?

coldfire409

12-10-2003, 05:48 PM

It's kinda nice the way the SAP's are at WDW. Since 90% of all queues are ADA accesable if the person is attempting to scam Guest Relations the person gets a use Wheelchair entrence. That just means that they have to wait in line with everybody else.

SplashMtnBoy

12-11-2003, 08:38 AM

Yes, here in WDW we changed our Guest Assistance Cards (GAC). They used to have soooo many different stamps from City Hall, that it was getting confusing. They have now reduced it to only 6 stamps with words and a graphic depicting its meaning to help make it easier for cast and guests to understand.
Here's what we do at Splash:

If the Card reads:_________ _________________________ Action to be taken:

Can use stroller as wheelchair________________ guest may take stroller through either Standby or FastPass return

Allow guest to sit in front row of theaters, ride vehicles ______________ guests are to sit in front row of log

Provide shaded area if available____________________ N/A- guests use standby (which is shaded) or get a FastPass

Guests may enter through standard wheelchair entraces ______________ Guests are instructed to use standby queue or get a FastPass

Guests can use alternate entrance where available _____________Guets may enter FastPass return without needing a FastPass ticket.

Guests should be provided any assistance necessary to expedite their visit (stamped in Green) __________Guests are directed to proceed through FastPass without needing a Fastpass ticket.

It's entertaining to watch people come up to me when I'm at exit greeter waving their GAC at me and I get to tell them to go to the regular line (or fastpass) after they walked all the way around the outside of the queue past the restrooms through the photoshop and weaving through the crowd at the photo preview area. They always say that the go to the exit at all rides and I get to tell them that some rides have narrow queues and wheelchairs can't fit , that's why they go to the exit there, but here at Splash we can accomodate wheelcharis through our line up until the staircase at which point a castmember will pull the party out of the line and direct them to the bypass area.
-Joe

tourbunny

12-12-2003, 07:09 AM

ahhh - i love wdw system! damn us for beeing so behind. but as some of you might have read on miceage, matt ouimet has already announced a change in sap system and our managemant is also already exitedly running around. they are thinking as early as january...
god bless...
from what i've heard it's gonna be as drastic as "if you have both feet, you better stand in line!" also i've heard that not even autism is gona count anymore. i look so forward to my city hall shifts then. big grinn on my face going "i'm sorry but - NO. GET OUT. I DON'T WANNE SEE YOU AGAIN. YOU ASMA DOESN'T FASE ME, NEITHER DOES YOU DIEBETIES!"
but i'm not bitter. we have to just make sure not to tell guests about upcoming changes quite yet. still confidential information.
i for one can't wait!

PoohBunniesHutch

12-12-2003, 12:32 PM

Oh ho! TourBunny! I'd watch your attitude about those with Diabetes. There are some insulin dependent diabetics which are informally called brittle diabetics, I for one, being one.

What that means is that any exercise out of the norm (such as standing in lines, walking over the park, can cause a release of too much indulin into the system and with the baseline insulin taken, can easily send a brittle diabetic into a hypoglycemic event.

And that is nothing to be made light of, it is very serious and can lead to life-threatening consequences.

I am wheelchair bound for two reasons, one, I am a very brittle diabetic (I have had severe consequences from hypoglycemic events which have resulted in several hospital stays all from a simple deviation of my normal activities, in one case, just standing in the receiving line at a wedding). And secondly, I fell a couple of years ago and fractured my coccyx. Also, I am a fall risk since I have no feeling in the lower half of my body and that leads to a lack of perception as to body placement. That is, I have no cluie where my body is in relation to the space around me. While most people would feel a stone they stepped on and be able to adjust their position, I would not and would fall.

I have never abused the SAP system, rather I am grateful for it as it allows me to have a few hours at DLR and enjoy my day just as everybody else gets to.

I do not go on rides that are jerky or bad for the back, such as Space Mountain.Splash Mountain, BTMRR, The Matterhorn, Indy, etc.

And if the other members in my party want to go on a ride that I am unable to, they go through the regular line or get a fast pass and I get to sit wherever they park me and wait.

And your attitude may be exactly why the resort instituted a no questions policy. Because you seem to be able to make value judgements as to what is and is not a disability and if you were to issue a pass to one disabled person and not another, based on your judgement as to what causes a disabiolity would be discrimination in the clearest form.

I am glad that they SAP program will be revamped, it is too abused as it stands. But in no case, should as CM make any judgement as to what qualifies as a disability. If a person carries a disabled placard, they have a signed statement on file with the state that they are disabled enough to warrant a placard. If they don't have a placard and the disability is temporary, then a note from a physician should be required.
And just a note, asthma, would not really affect someone's ability to stand in line, unless they are oxygen dependent. But, autisim would since stimulus for an autistic child should be kept at a minimum, for the safety of the child as well as the comfort of other guests.

SO, from your post, and I am sorry to say this, it seems that you do not have the skills to determine exactly what constitutes a disability and left up to you, I am sure that the DLR would have been innundated with lawsuits for discrimination based on disability.

Again, the system needs to be reformed, but CMs should not be making medical judgements as to what constitues a disability and the accomodations required.
JMHO

SRT_GB

12-12-2003, 03:23 PM

I echo the last comment.

I also agree that the SAP system is insanely abused and needs to be changed. I like WDW's system (from what has been said on this board), but again, a line needs to be drawn as to how to decide what level of SAP the guest gets.

And if the rumors are true and the system is changing in the next few months, the guests that routinely get them and don't need them are gonna have a massive uproar. Of course, the guests that truly need them are gonna be happy, which is what matters to me.

I can't tell you how upset I was when a co-worker once asked me, "you mean you don't get one when you come into the park to play?"

Polar33

12-12-2003, 03:39 PM

Knowing how Disney Legal likes to micro-manage things, I'm sure that there will be some sort of guide for the GR folks, to determine exactly what type of assistance is required. From what I can tell from the WDW system, it doesn’t deny people from getting a SAP it just describes what needs to be done to accommodate them. The main problem at DL is that no matter what needs to be done to accommodate your situation, you have a pass that pretty much gives free reign to the holder to use however they want, regardless of what accommodation they need.

From what I have heard, most SAP scammers use the "I can't stand in line" excuse to obtain their pass. One thing I noticed at WDW is that most (if not all) attractions had wheelchairs at the queue entrances. I would hope that DL would do the same so that the SAP for people who simply "can't stand in line" would simply grant them access to a wheelchair and they can then wait in the wheelchair accessible standby queue. That would solve the problem so that people that actually cannot physically stand in a line are accommodated, and the scammers gain nothing.

Yes, it's a difficult task, but hopefully by taking away the carte blanche status of the SAP and giving each SAP holder a pass that accommodates their individual needs will eliminate the problems.

PoohBunniesHutch

12-12-2003, 11:19 PM

And I for one am going to be grateful for the reform. First, I won't get jeered along with those who are really abusing the system. Secondly, it won't be a front of pass things those who feel they are entitled to. I welcome the reform and the WDW system is great. It made things actually go faster for me as I am wheelchair bound and not able to do much activity. And then those who can do more than I are accomodated to their level needs. It is very well planned and organized.

Dante101

12-13-2003, 12:11 AM

Oh ho! TourBunny! I'd watch your attitude about those with Diabetes.
Calm down. Obviously there are different levels of people with diabetes. Many can stand in line and walk around the park like everyone else. If you've read any of TourBunny's other posts, you'd understand that she deals with a lot of idiots who lie to her and try to get special passes from her when they don't really need them. You may not think that's a big deal, but when you're in her position, you start to feel like you're being taken advantage of; like the person getting the pass feels you are stupid for believing their lie.

She's just venting for Christsakes... Give it a rest...

Anonymous

12-17-2003, 08:17 AM

Our lead over at the HM ride said that the new president is working on getting a new system for the SAP's in the next coming months. I hope this is true! It really needs to work on this system. The other day I had maybe 10 families within my half hour at the front of the house with SAP's nothing wrong with them only thing I noticed that they had kids with birthdays. Grrr. . .

coldfire409

12-18-2003, 08:33 PM

That's ok, there was one day I had a guest with a Guest Assistance Card when I worked at Space Mountain that had a typical stamp on it, and then they wrote in the card that:

Guest is extremly disabled, please escort directly to the front of the line.

I ended up conficating that card from them and I made them wait in the line. I told the guest that I cannot accomidate what was written on the card, but if you would like I'll call my manager and have them "take care" of the situation, but I would have to hold onto the card until he came. She left and I still had the card.

flower

01-02-2004, 07:25 PM

So a lady came up to me and wanted to know where she could find guest relations cms that weren't rude. After we did some asking, she was all upset about the new SAC and wanted to go higher than park management. She told us that "in order to get one now you have to be crippled." The best line was "You've taken away my reason for coming here!" Then she limped off. <sigh> oh well, one less person in the queue I guess.

PoohBunniesHutch

01-02-2004, 09:52 PM

"She told us that "in order to get one now you have to be crippled."

Well, yeah, that's kind of the point. If the only reason she came to Disneyland was that she could abuse the system, I am glad that she is gone.

But not because it makes my day any more enjoyable, but it makes the day of an able bodied guest more enjoyable. They are the ones most impacted by the abuse, not the disabled.

tourbunny

01-02-2004, 10:10 PM

PBH,
i'm so sorry if i offended you! all the other running to my aid :thank you!
i wanne let you know that i have cancer in my bones, type2 diabetes, arthrites(as part of the cancer) and collites (digestiv disease).
so i'm not exactly the healthiest either. noone ever knows about that until now. if my management would know they would put me in the phoneroom permanently with all the other people that can't stand for 8 hrs on their feet. so i don't have that put in my medical record so they won't put any restrictions on me. i'll just make my way thru my day with a lot f painkillers. i for one enjoy the action, giving tours and just beeing in city hall making fun of people beeing pathetic to us...
so i'd realy be the last person to dicriminate agains a disability, i've just been lyed to so many times that one just cannot afford compassion any more without ending up in the loony bin.
so basically, ya, i don't care anymore. city hall seldomly gets anybody that doesn't want to cheat, try to get free stuff or just see what they can get away with. that kind of scars us for life. we are not allowed to think for ourselfs so anything that we tell people was scripted at one point or another. i'm going to make an official post about the new sac system to hopefully clear up some rainy cloweds over naturally confused other cm's so just read it and enjoy.

PoohBunniesHutch

01-02-2004, 11:44 PM

Thank you tourbunny! I am thankful that you understand that a disability is more than just being in a chair. And I understand that you have been lied to out the ying yang. I've seen it and I've experienced the abuse and been the brunt of the anger of the able bodied guest.

I guess what management needs to be trained on is diversity in disabilities, but still should never make a decision as to which disability deserves a pass or not (chair vs. no chair)

And I never allowed my physician to officially totally disable me. Like you, I still want to work, even though my doctor says that I don't have to because I am officially totally disabled. UGH! Never! As long as I have a brain and can self accomodate in order to do my job, I , like you, will continue to do my job.

And i totally sympatize with the abuse you all are suffering, no one has any reason to be discourteous to a CM, even when being denied a SAP. And usually its the ones who scream the loudest are the ones who abused it in the past.

But I am not screaming, just voicing my concern over a new policy that while cutting down on the abuse, allows discrimination on the basis of disability. But again, the new policy does not affect me in the least as I am chair bound. But that is no reason to ignore what is wrong with the system.

Nice to be able to call you friend, tourbunny! After all, we are both bunnies-lol!
Edited by CujoSR: Merged Topics and Removed Double Post

tourbunny

01-03-2004, 11:16 AM

THAT'S RIGHT! US BUNNIES HAVE TO STICK TOGETHER! so all is well and we can callourselfs friends just like you sayed.
happy times ahaead!

PoohBunniesHutch

01-03-2004, 08:47 PM

Well bunny sis, I'll see you next time at City Hall gettingmy very own blessed SAP(SAC). You'll know me because I'll be the one in my very own motorized recreational vehicle (reminiscent of cousin eddie in Christmas Vacation)!

After two years of being confined to a wheelchair and dependent on my husband for everything, including my mobility, I've got my own four wheelin scooter.

Its a beautiful champagne color with a matching leather high backed captains chair that reclines to let me rest. I wanted a three wheel since I felt it to be more dainty, but the four wheel was available now and my parents thought it would be more stable and it is.

Now I can ride down to the grocery store, pick up a sandwich at Subway and get my hair done, all things I had to schedule around my husband. And when the day is nice, I get tool around the hood!

Whoo! Hoo! you have no idea how excited and liberated I feel...